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Jimbojsr
Jul 3, 05 - 6:59 AM |
The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
... the article that JP Holding of the rather well-known Tekton ministries has put up, adressing some of the points on this site at www.tektonics.org/af/adkins01.html . In the name of even discussion, I felt I should direct visitors to the site in the direction of an article that actually uses, er, scholarship in its reasoning. So, read why the apostate has turned his back on the Gospel, then read why his decision was an unreasonable one. Enjoy, everyone! |
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Wayne Adkins
Jul 3rd, 2005 - 8:21 AM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
Already read it Jimbo and I would encourage readers here to read it as well. I don't see how you think there was any "scholarship" in what he wrote. He tried to play it off as old tired issues that had been settled long ago and linked to a canned answer for each contradiction. But did you actually click through and read them? They are woefully insufficient. If all one does is read his response you would get the impression that JP has an answer for everything and there are no unexplained conflicts. That is the smoke and mirrors of the typical Christian apologist. He linked to the "answers" rather than giving them in his article because he knew that most people would not click through and evaluate them. That way he can dismiss the errors without having his own flimsy responses dismissed. Take for instance the contradictions in Jesus' lineages. He linked to what he claims was the explanation for that contradiction, but it was the same "explanation" I had addressed and debunked on my site. He is simply claiming that they are overlapping lineages. He also points to various lineages recorded in secular writings of the day to try to play off the contradicting lineages as the style of the day. He tries to paint me as ignorant for not knowing about them and asks what is the difference. The difference is that there is no claim for inspiration or inerrancy of those secular writings of the day. They can be wrong. If the Bible is inspired and inerrant it can't be wrong. He also points out that I was awre of Ryrie's explanation for one of the contradictions, but doesn't point out that I had showed Ryrie's explanation to be wrong because Ryrie had confused which accounts agree and which ones did not. The one goal of JP Holdings article seems to be to keep people from reading my site. His tone is hostile and arrogant and he sounds like the cop who says "move along, nothing to see here" while the carnage is cleaned up behind him. Yes, read his article and then READ HIS ALLEDGED EXPLANATIONS. Holding is just another in a long line of loud mouthed charlatans in the world of Christian apologetics. |
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Jimbojsr
Jul 3rd, 2005 - 9:33 AM |
Some points of response
"I don't see how you think there was any "scholarship" in what he wrote." Well, he used the work of qualified scholars to back up his assertions and refute your allegations... "But did you actually click through and read them? They are woefully insufficient." Yup. Actually, I'd read several of them before I saw JP's article on this site. In my opinion, they answer the allegations pretty dashed well. If you disagree with me (as you do later on in the above post) then you could always spend some time on a response of your own and send it to the man. "He linked to the "answers" rather than giving them in his article because he knew that most people would not click through and evaluate them. " See that everyone? See how highly you are all regarded by the Emperor? :D "The difference is that there is no claim for inspiration or inerrancy of those secular writings of the day. They can be wrong. If the Bible is inspired and inerrant it can't be wrong." Fair enough, although the point he was making was that these extrabiblical genealogies aren't labelled as drivel. Also, have a look at some of the stuff about western and ANE concepts of what is "accurate". "The one goal of JP Holdings article seems to be to keep people from reading my site." Dunno where you get that idea. I found the site easily enough without anyone giving me a URL. Yeah, he's a bit of a pain in the backside at times - but hey, nobody's perfect, eh? 
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Wayne Adkins
Jul 3rd, 2005 - 3:46 PM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
Just like I thought, Holdings is just a charlatan trying to make a living duping naive christians.... http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2002/4/024jph.html |
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Jimbojsr
Jul 4th, 2005 - 5:19 PM |
Blech
I was half-way through typing my reply to this post when Internet Explorer decided it would switch off. This is rather annoying, as it's the second time it's happened, and the second time it's caused me to lose my work. That, plus the fact that it's 10 past 1 in the morning over here, mean that I'm gonna leave this until tomorrow. Or today, as it actually is. Anyway, I shall leave the forum (temporarily) with links to www.infidels.org and www.infidelguy.com , both of which do, er, exactly the same as "Holdings" [sic] does, and ask for money to help keep the ministry going. I fail to see what makes Holding's action different from the 2 above (except, of course, that JP is a Christian, which automatically marks him out as a buffoon and a criminal  )
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Wayne Adkins
Jul 4th, 2005 - 9:07 PM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
http://www.nakedemperor.netfirms.com/JP%20Holding%20response.htm There you go Jimbo. Since you are apparently too lazy to evaluate his "work" for yourself, I have done it for you. Despite his chest beating and dismissive air, he did not do his homework before sitting down to type. Holding is just blowing hot air. There is no substance there. If I wrote that kind of drivel I would use a fake name too. |
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Jimbojsr
Jul 5th, 2005 - 5:41 AM |
Re: Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
So, as I don't agree with your views, I must be "too lazy" to actually evaluate opposing claims. I do love your impartial, unbiased approach  And, of course, after accusing him of being arrogant, you behave exactly the same way yourself.Still, it's nice to actually have some on-topic discussion (as opposed to Farrell Till's gargantuan and irrelevant ad-hominem about him working for money... oh blast, you've done exactly the same in your opening paragraph. Ah well...). I'll let JP know (assuming you haven't already), and have a thorough read when I get the chance. Also, are you (or any of the visitors to the site) interested in hearing my thoughts on Till's work? I presume not, since I'm a christian, which means I'm a biased imbicile with no ability to think critically  , but I might stick 'em up anyways.
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tracyanne
 Apr 28th, 2006 - 10:35 PM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
quote:: lso, are you (or any of the visitors to the site) interested in hearing my thoughts on Till's work? I presume not, since I'm a christian, which means I'm a biased imbicile with no ability to think critically , but I might stick 'em up anyways ::quote You ask a question and then answer it yourself, without even giving others a chance to reply. I l;eads me, at least, to the assumption that you are not actually interested in what anyone else might think. Yes I would like to hear your views. |
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Wayne
Apr 29th, 2006 - 4:49 AM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
TracyAnne, Jimbo gave it his best shot back in January in a thread called "So Hypothetically Speaking." He asked if I would remove an alleged biblical error from my site if he could provide an adequate explanation for it. He posted a page with his "explanation" on the Tektoniks site. I posted a page with a response detailing why his explanation held no water. He then posted a note on his page admitting that his first explanation didn't appear to hold water and he was looking into a second explanation, (the Wednesday crusifixion scenario) one which he admitted would create other problems while solving one. That was over three months ago. I guess he doesn't want to play anymore. |
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Jimbojsr
Apr 29th, 2006 - 11:29 AM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
Traceyanne, The question was a rhetorical one, designed to poke fun at Wayne's apparent attitude that Christians simply aren't worth listening to becaus they are biased (unlike atheists, of course). Without going through all of Till's document again, you can probably figure out my thoughts by clicking on the links that I provided to skeptics who ask for money in exatly the same way that Tektonics does. Briefly, I suspect that issues of money, pseudonyms etc etc are brought up as a substitute for reasoned, evidence-bsaed argument. If you're dying for a response from me, though, then let me know. I'd be flattered :) Wayne - truth is, I'd almost forgotten about this place. Sadly, work and other commitments have left me a bit short on time for this kind of stuff (otherwise I'd also have put together a response to the multiple issues raised in the gargantuan thread between Bud and myself) - but seeing as you mentioned it, I'll pay a visit back to the page in question and have another look. Sadly, though, you're gonna be behind Traceyanne in the queue as, despite her apparent lack of a sense of humour, she asked NICELY 
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Wayne
Apr 29th, 2006 - 2:07 PM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
You are so full of it Jimbo! No, I don't mind waiting in line behind Tracy. I figured you would find another reason to stall since you obviously aren't up to it. Nice has nothing to do with it. You were rude in your very first post here as this thread indicates. You got that smug grin wiped off your face and now you have nothing to say.
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Jimbojsr
Apr 29th, 2006 - 2:20 PM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
Y'know, if you want that sense of humour that's been conspicuous by its absence on this forum, just ask. Try this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/blackadder) for starters. Ironic as it may seem, the episodes that get stuck into religion are amongst my faves
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tracyanne
Apr 29th, 2006 - 4:18 PM |
Re: The Nookie Emperor dude may be interested to read...
quote:: Sadly, though, you're gonna be behind Traceyanne in the queue as, despite her apparent lack of a sense of humour, she asked NICELY ::quote What was that swooshing sound, that was Australian humour going over the yanks head, which is why we can get away with so much. Actually I didn't ask nicely, and you did not phase the question in any way that suggested rhetorical, you seemed more intent on being simply insulting, which is why I called you on it. quote:: If you're dying for a response from me, though, then let me know. I'd be flattered :) ::quote So a response would be appreciated, so please feel free to consider yourself flattered. I've been here before, but it's been a while. I'd lost the link, and only rediscovered it when someone started spamming my naked emporer email address, and that I only noticed because I was going through the logs of my spamgourmet proxy account. So I've been doing some catch up. So feel free, also, to supply a resolution to the isses that Wayne speeks. The board I administer on ezboard (Atheist vs Theist Debate) is fairly quiet again, as we've just finished putting yet another arrogant religionist in his place. And my own board "Free and Open - Linux and Open Source Software" requires little upkeep as it's really an formation site that links people to useful information on the Linux Operating System and Free Open Source Software, so I have time to get up to speed. |
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