Check out the internationaltangsoodofederation.com website. Chun Sik Kim is hosting a "1st National All Martial Arts Forms Symposium". He claims that he "is the only instructor in the United States knowledgeable in all of the old traditional Korean forms."
Is that possible?!
He's inviting all TSD and TKD practitioners in Moo Duk Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan and Song Moo Kwan.
Oops - Ji Do Kwan too.
Who has better credientials that C.S. Kim in the USA?
Tang Soo!
Dave
How about,
Grand Master J.C. Shin, GrandMaster J.J. Kim
b
Oh Yeah, but they no traditional.
D.
3 to 6 others...possibly.
However, if you do a little checking, you will find that Mr. C.S. Kim also includes a form in his curriculum called "Hwarang"...and it ain't like the Chang Hon form....and Mr. Kim claims the form is 2000 years old.
Yeahhh! Riiighhht!
JH
Dave
Define traditional....jj kim would be closest possibly being around as long as he has. as for hwarang hyung I believe it was created by C.S. Kim and added after oh sip sa bu...far from traditional but an interesting form.
MD
Martial Art Style Michigan Tang Soo Do / www.michigantsd.com
Please forgive me for my earlier sarcasm. My point was exactly on the word "traditional".
CS Kim is very clear about what he is saying and it is based on his defination of "traditional", not mine.
I am registered for the class so I will let you know how it goes.
I myself am a "Neoclassical Traditionalist" and in this school... of 1, I am world's leading authority. Save money and come to my seminar next Februrary 30th, it is only $5 and I quarantee it will be worth every penny of it.
Tang Soo!
Dave
We would be interested in your seminar. Where are you located? We have been to C. S. Kim's seminars. No disrespect intended, but he does not remember his own hyungs consistently, let alone those of other kwans. And you never progress very far into any of them, and you NEVER get real application beyond what we already teach our white belts. And his instructors do most of the teaching anyway (so I guess he can't be the only one?) which would be okay if they were consistent. 3 separate people in 3 separate groups come away with 3 different versions of the form. That's why the original question was posed...not to question C. S. Kim's credentials, but wondering whether he could truly be the ONLY one that knows this information. It would not be worth $200 of my money anyway since the $40 and $100 we've paid in the past were the same seminar and taught us no more than we already knew.
I am getting more and more convinced that if you do not study the original Arts of the "Traditional TSD" forms that you will never really understand the whole truth.
From my experience from training under a few of the "mainline" TSD Association is that they really do not understand the the real truths of the Okinawan/Japanese/Chinese forms that were incorporated into what we now call "Traditional TSD".
I bet you are right about this seminar but for $200 to hang around with another 199 Black Belts talking aboput Forms has got to be fun.
Tang Soo!
Dave
Maybe. I hope you get your money's worth. However, you are absolutely correct that never in 10 years with the ITF have we heard anything about these forms originating from Okinawa, China, or Timbuktu, so I'm not sure any intelligent conversation surrounding the origins will ensue. (In fact it would be considered traitorous and would lead to (1) ending up on CSKim's ignore list, and (2) eventual expulsion from the ITF for insubordination). Also, as a school owner belonging to the ITF, attendance at these seminars is mandatory (at least per our Sabom Nim). That's where the turnout comes from. 199 would be pretty optimistic. Usually at the annual instructor's seminar there are 60 - 70 or so. But perhaps that's why he's opened it up to all? He is looking for money for his meditation center!
Sounds like you may have hit the nail on the head, money. I don't think he is the "only" one to go to for forms please. its a gimmick , to get more people.
I am not surprised that some of these Korean run orgs would not mention the real roots of the forms we in Tang Soo Do have. They have been very Nationalistic and it has come back to bite them on the Ass, this is the information age, geez, like we would not have found these things out?
I am lucky in that the Mi Guk Kwan freely admits and researches the origins of the forms to better understand the nature of each form. Chinese,Japanese,Okinawan, whatever, I would say we are even encouraged to dig ourselves and learn.
b
Where can we get more information on the Mi Guk Kwan? Possibly joining at some point?
http://www.tsdmgk.com/
I believe this is the correct url...
although I never had the personal honor of meeting KJN Ferraro, I have formed a friendship with this man and hold him in high regards and deep respect. I highly reccomend him and his organization...you couldnt be in better hands!
Tang Soo!
Dave Zacker aka MD
Martial Art Style Michigan Tang Soo Do / www.michigantsd.com
gee...how can that possibly be true when C.S.Kim is the only one in the U.S. that knows anything?!
Dear Wondering.
I am not sure what you are saying about Master CS Kim is fair or correct. When I called his office yesterday to sign up for the Seminar - he answered the phone... you got to admire that. The last time we meet was in 1999 and he remember me, my instructor, my nephew and my brother and ask specifically about each one.
We had a very nice conversation on Forms, particularly the Shotokan Bunkai and pressure point applications. Do I expect alot of that or even any of that - no... but it will be a fun time.
Yes C.S. Kim is extremely successful and I do not fault him for that because I have seen his students and they are as good or better than anything I have seen.
Is this man perfect - no - but no one will dispute his technique, his success and his impact of Tang Soo Do in America. I bet there are least 30 ITF independent TSD schools in the Pittsburgh Area alone that came out of his teaching.
I may be mistaken but I think he may have promoted well over 20,000 to black belt. Let's not grind and axe here against one of the GIANTS of TSD.
Tang Soo!
Dave
Since my experiences are based on actual interaction and events you can not judge whether or not they are accurate. Not even sure you can judge whether or not they are fair. You are allowed to form your own opinion of course based on the facts I have stated. But you can not change or judge the facts themselves. I have not offered my personal opinion of what I think of CSKim as a human being, and do not see this as a forum to do so, so I won't. Just passing along facts regarding seminars attended...many, many of them. Once we find a new "home" we will no longer be with the ITF. But it has nothing to do with the seminars they sponsor.
My advise is not to jump from frying pan into the fire. If you are going to leave, then leave. You do not have to associate with another organization right away.
Personally, when the school left the ITF and went to the ATA it only took a short time before we realized it was not much different so we left the association world for good.
We found a Master who only required that school owner pay his regular student fee and attend as many classes as possible. That is all. Everything else was volunteery and promotions were based on Mastery of TSD not Mastery of polictics and money.
My school is my school. I go to the tournaments I want to go to. I go to the seminars I want to go to and I keep every penny I earn.
If you want to talk more please do not hesitate to write me at doty15143@comcast.net.
Tang Soo!
Dave
THANK YOU for the advice. We have been very concerned about that exact thing. But we know we have to leave. We will heed your words.
http://www.geocities.com/internationaltangsoodoalliance/
Click on 'Ratified Constitution'. Just read it. That's all.
JH
Thanks. We have been soooo sheltered. Other than the ITF, we didn't even really know any other orgs existed other than JJKim's and JCShin's because we were never "allowed" to attend non-ITF events, tournaments, seminars, etc. It's unbelievable what else is available. It's very difficult to make the move when you've been so brainwashed to believe you are with the largest (ITF is not even close to being the largest we've discovered), and only organization worthwhile....that you will be stripped of your rank once gone....amongst other mantras.
Be careful - you will get every single sales pitch there is in the martial arts world including promises of promotions, promotions, promotions.
No offense but if you were as gullible as you say you were for so long it may take a few years to decompress.
Trust me you do not need an Association and some Grandmaster to tell you who you are. Now is the time to take control of your Martial Arts life and take back your students.
Tang Soo!
Dave
Greetings!!
I reviewed that pdf file and was unable to find where Kim claimed to be "the only instructor...", but there was plenty of "recongnized Leading Authority", "a leading Authority", and "leading TSD stylist".
Symantics, I know, but changing just one word, ie from "a" to "the" can radically alter the tone of a statement.
Tang Soo!
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Replying to:
Check out the internationaltangsoodofederation.com website. Chun Sik Kim is hosting a "1st National All Martial Arts Forms Symposium". He claims that he "is the only instructor in the United States knowledgeable in all of the old traditional Korean forms."
Is that possible?!
He's inviting all TSD and TKD practitioners in Moo Duk Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan and Song Moo Kwan.
Unbelievable! But good I guess. The hard copy that I originally printed, sitting here in front of me, clearly states "...is the only instructor in the U.S." I looked again because of your post and sure enough - the wording has been changed. Good for him for owning up to NOT being "the only" one.
I will scan and send you the hard copy I have so you can see for yourself.
Wondering:
Thanks for the scan! Sure enough, right there in black and white, "the only..."! My guess is some PR/ advertising type received a dressing down for that original post.
Thanks Again
To me the true meaning of hyungs is in the bunkai of the hyung..
Martial Art Style Tang soo do
Well how about KJN C.I. kim in chicago, KJN Ferraro in conn.
Martial Art Style Tang soo do