How old are the Chil Sung Forms. One web page said they were made in the 1930's another said the 1950's and Master Ho Sik Pak and Kang Uk Lee say the 80's. Does any one have any other dates or facts to back up any of these dates?

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Why should you care. Forms are irrilivent to martial arts and hamper and slow down your techniques.

Martial Art Style Hapkido, Tang su do, Tae kwon do ( many other styles from books)

I try never to get in to this argument about forms, mainly because it is so obvious to me that forms are so very important, and of course I have seldom had any one present a solid case against them. Oh, they will quote someone like Bruce Lee out of context or some such, but seldom will they really understand what they are saying or advocating. (Note: Lee himself practiced forms) I can go on for hours on end through logical demonstrations, I can teach a physics class to demonstrate the worth of Hyungs and the techniques contained therein, I can compare the difference between fighters trained with forms as a part of their training and those not trained in this manner...I can show how they move differently, where their focus is, compare their speed, compare their timing and easily the difference will be evident(on rare ocassions when I get this far usually people come around at this point-a dear friend of mine seeing the failing of his fighters put forms back into his curriculm and his students benefited greatly), and the better warrior easily is distinquished, I can give anecdotes from nearly 28 years in the Martial Arts that demonstrates just how important forms are in a warrior's development, what great training aids they are for those that are wise enough to use them as they are meant to be utilized.

Forms are not the only part of Martial Arts, but it really does make me sad when I hear other Martial Artists not realizing what a great thing they are and how useful they are at training the mind, body and soul. What great tools to teach power, strength, movement, flexibility, focus...it makes me sad when people miss this. Even sadder is when they should or do know better and still go through life in darkness.

Just my humble opinion, though I know it to be right, and without doubt a fact...but I know there will continue to be those that disagree and will use the same flawed arguments I have heard for nearing 3 wonderful martial arts filled decades to defend what I have come to believe is a flawed view. Though, I am always up for something new or in this case an explanation how forms make you "slow" (interesting fact is I think I already know the flawed reasoning to be used, but will remain silent and not rebut it here in hopes I hear something filled with truth and originality).

Jamie

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Amen Brother you are right on, I've trained In TSD for over 25 years and JKD for more than 10 years, and my forms definitely helped my JKD. Not much more I can add you said it all.

Tang Soo!!

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

I know the 1993 red belt guide states that they were ceated in 1952, I don't think they were officially released until the early eighties though.

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Thanks

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

HAs anyone seen the sixth Chil Sun? ehat was it like?

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Greetings everyone...

I'm a Cho Dan in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan. Since our organization was under direct guidance from the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan, Hwang Kee, up until his death on July 14, 2002 and is now under his son, H.C. Hwang I've had many opportunities to witness all seven Chil Sung Hyung.

Hwang Kee, Kwan Jang Nim created the Chil Sung Hyung (7), the Yuk Ro Hyung (6), the Ship Dan Khum Hyung (10), and Hwa Sun Hyung (1) from his extensive study of the Moo Yei Dobo Tong Ji. The Moo Yei Dobo Tong Ji was presented to him by a Professor B. at Seoul National University in 1957. I would estimate that the Chil Sung Hyung were created between 1957 and 1960, and introduced in Korea when Hwang Kee, KJN decided to change the name of his art from Tang Soo Do (the Korean translation of the Chinese/Kanji characters for Karate-Do) to something in reverence to the name found in the Moo Yei... that described all native Korean methods of bare hand and foot combat, Soo Bahk.

As I gather it, Tang Soo Do was the name used by the Chung Do Kwan (of the 5 original martial arts schools in Korea circa 1945). Hwang Kee and the Kwan Jang of the Chung Do Kwan were friends and when Hwang Kee's art of Hwa Soo Do was unsuccessful because it was too Kung Fu-like for the Koreans who had just escaped a 35 year cultural oppression by the Japanese, he used the term Tang Soo Do in a similar way that most individual and unique martial arts in the states have to put the word "Karate" on their businesses.

Because of this, it can be argued that the Chil Sung hyung are not Tang Soo Do hyung (which incoporated Hwang Kee's revamping-to-use-hip of the Japanese classical set, and of course the creation of the 3 Gi Cho Hyung in 1947).

Since the question was in regard to Chil Sung Yuk Ro hyung, I'll say that this is a Sa (4th) Dan Master's hyung with around 100-120 (somewhere in there) movements. The floor pattern is complex and includes a double foot sweep which we lovingly call the "Iron Broom" technique as well as jump-spinning kicks and a couple repetitions of the inverted roundhouse (Pi Cha Gi). It's a beautiful form. Chil Sung Seven is also very beautiful.

Martial Art Style Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan

Marc Enriquez,

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Yes you are correct in regard to Lee Won *** having coined Tang Soo Do before GM Whang Kee, and After Wha Soo Do failed he began calling it TSD with the urging of Lee Won Kuk. (This is alot like Choi Young Sul's problem with YuSool not taking off till he renamed it Hap ki do with urging from GM Ji Han Jae)
Now, if the Chil Sun created in the 50's, as is shown in the gup manuals, what took so long for them to be released in the US? I don't think I remember seeing them till maybe the early eighties? and my Vol.1 from 78 makes no mention of the Chil Sun / Yuk Ro at all in the list of forms.
I did see #6 quite a while ago, the double sweep is all I remember though, hence the question.
Also, the Chil Sun are indeed Tang Soo Do forms, they were created before GM Hwang Kee officially changed the name to Soo Bahk Do, you could more correctly say they are Tang Soo Do MDK hyung though.

Tang Soo
b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do