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Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

My Question is essentially what is the Origin of Wanshu and how did it acquire its name? It is obviously (or closely identical to) the Shotokan Enpi. Is this a Korean renaming of the Enpi or is it something else. I have myself looked, but have not found the answer. I have used this form often in competition, but unlike many of my other forms, to be honest I know little about its origins, nor why the name is different. Especially since, many schools of Tang Soo Do still refer to the form as Enpi or variations of the spelling.

If anyone could enlighten me I would greatly appreciate it.

Confused,

Jamie

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Re: Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

I'm out of town right now but,

This Kata was brought to Okinawa between 1644/1683 by a Military Attaché named Wang Ji of Wansu(?)
or Wansu he was known on Okinawa. The Kata was named after him. It was named Empi in shotokan.when I get home I will be able to hit my notes and check if I got anything wrong. or JH or Dave S. can correct me before that. LOL
b

Re: Re: Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

You pretty much got it right . Funakoshi changed the name to Empi , from Wansu . If you wanna see how the Kata looked before Funakoshi made the changes , look up matsubayashi Ryu's wansu . It follows the same embusen , or pattern .

David

Re: Re: Re: Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

Here it is : http://www.matsubayashi-ryu.net/video/14%20-%20Wanshu.mpg

David

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

Bernard's info is correct as far as my notes correlate. However, I wouldn't point to Matsubayashi Ryu as the ultimate source for how the form looked prior to Funakoshi's changes (btw...most technique adjustments in modern Shotokan are post Funakoshi...as is evident from viewing his earliest works). There is some evidence that Isshin Ryu or even ****o Ryu versions are more close to the original Matsumura version than Shoshin Nagamine's version. No one can authoritatively say for sure. It is well known that Itosu changed many of the forms and Kyan Chotoku did also (Kyan is known to have taught differently to different people....just because).

JH

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

John ,

The Isshin Ryu Wansu Kata is basically the same as Kyan's version . He (Tatsuo Shimabuku) then took Kyan's version & added about twice as many moves to the end of it . Seito , or Orthodoxed Shi-To Ryu does not even practice Wansu . I know the Motobu Ha guys do , but their kata is I believe based on Shotokan's Empi , as they do the Jump at the end of the Kata . OK , lets look at the Matsubayashi Ryu Wansu , & compare it to TSD's version :
1.Matsu-They do a grab & sweep , followed by a downward punch .
TSD-Does what appears to be a down block performed on one knee.
2.Matsu-turns down blocks , then steps fwd to punch .
TSD-Turns , performs the down block then a reverse punch .
3.Matsu-Then turns to the front , & performs a down block reverse punch , grab pull in short punch , morote ge dan barai .
TSD-does the same thing except instead of the double down block in shiko dachi , you guys do a down block/backfist strike to the rear in a back stance .
Both of these sequences are repeated throught the kata , in both versions .
4.Matsu-next does a forearm strike into the L. palm followed by a short block .
TSD-Does something similar , but a bigger motion , followed by a knife hand block , but then you guys throw two punches .
5.Matsu-Then turns , performs a down block , reverse punch then a knife hand .
TSD-performs a knife hand , switch stance knife hand , reverse punch knife hand .
6.Matsu-Turns performs a down block then steps & punches.
TSD-performs the same sequence as described in remark 3 from above .
7. Matsu does three middle blocks in Shiko Dachi .
TSD-does three open handed low/middle blocks in a front stance .
8. Matsu then performs the grab & throw followed by 2 knife hands .
TSD grabs , & throws somone while jumping , followed by 2 knife hands .
I believe some of the moves were switched , or steps added because Funakoshi wanted to make it his own Kata , & take out some of the dangerous moves . But , if you look at it like described above , you will see it follows almost the same embusen . If you would like , I can try to find some footage to show , of both the Kyan version & of Shimabuku's version's of these Kata , just so you can see how much of a difference there really is . I have researched pretty much all of the Shorin Ryu groups to see which Kata follow the TSD forms the closest . In regards to Wansu , the matsubayashi ryu version is IMO the closest to what you do in TSD , w/ the changes noted above . The Gohakukai , which is an Tomari Te & Goju Ryu group in Okinawa does a few versions of Wansu , that are also similar , but you will not find any footage of their kata anywhere , unless you goto Okinawa to their Dojo , or Canada where there's a Shibu , or branch . I personally like the Kyan version's better , though their the most different from what I used to practice in TSD , but I think of all the Shorin Groups , the kyan Kata move the closest to the Goju Ryu that I do , & thats why I like them .

Re: Question Regarding Hyung Wanshu/Enpi/Impi/Impei?

Thank you for everyone's help and feed back it has been a Great help to me.


Jamie