Here I go again, I came across this article from Dragon Times from Mr Swift:

Dragon Times, Volume 18, (Pages 27-28)
Traditional Martial Arts Masters
Channan: The “Lost” Kata of Itosu?
By:
Charles J. Swift
Introduction
It is commonly held that the series of five basic kata called Pinan were developed by Itosu Anko (1832-1915) in around 1907 for inclusion in the karate curriculum of the Okinawan school system. However, the actual history of the Pinan series has been the subject of intense curiosity as of late. There are basically two schools of thought, one that Itosu Anko developed them from the older classical forms that were cultivated in and around the Shuri area, and the other that Itosu was re-working a longer Chinese form called Channan.
Unfortunately, most of the written references to the Channan/Pinan phenomenon in the English language are basically rehashes of the same uncorroborated oral testimony, This article will examine the primary literature written by direct students of ltosu, as well as more recent research in the Japanese language, in an effort to solve the "mystery" of Channan.
ltosu Anko
In order to understand the Pinan phenomenon, perhaps it is best to start off with a capsule biography of their architect, Itosu Anko (1832-1915). Many sources state that Itosu was born in the Yamakawa section of Shuri (Bishop, 1999; Okinawa Prefecture, 1994; Okinawa Prefecture, 1995), however, noted Japanese martial arts historian lwai Tsukuo states that he was actually born in Gibo, Shuri, and later relocated to Yamakawa (Iwai, 1992). He is commonly believed to have studied under Matsumura Sokon (1809-1901), but also appears to have had other influences, such as Nagahama of Naha (Iwai, 1992; Motobu, 1932), Matsumora Kosaku of Tomari and a master named Gusukuma (Nihon Karate Kenkyukai, 1956).
There does not seem to be much detail about Itosu's early life, except for the fact that he was a student of the Ryukyuan civil fighting traditions. At around age 23, he passed the civil service examinations and was employed by the Royal government (Iwai, 1992). It seems as if Itosu gained his position as a clerical scribe for the King through an introduction by his friend and fellow karate master Asato Anko (Funakoshi, 1988). ltosu stayed with the Royal government until the Meiji Restoration, when the Ryukyu Kingdom became Okinawa Prefecture. Itosu stayed on and worked for the Okinawan Prefectural government until 1885 (Iwai, 1992).
There is some controversy as to when Itosu became a student of Matsumura. Some say that he first met Matsumura when Itosu was in his late 20s (Iwai, 1992), whereas others maintain that Itosu was older than 35 when he began studying from
Matsumura (Fujiwara, 1990). Matsumura appears to have been friendly with Itosu's father (Iwai, 1992).
Be that as it may, Itosu is said to have mastered the Naifuanchi kata (Nihon Karate Kenkyukai, 1950; Okinawa Pref., 1995). In fact, one direct student of Itosu, namely Funakoshi Gichin, recalled 10 years of studying nothing but the three Naifuanchi kata under the eminent master (Funakoshi, 1976). Again, there is some controversy as to where ltosu had learned the Naifuanchi kata from. Some give credit to Matsumura for teaching this kata to Itosu (Murakami, 1991). However, others say differently, and here is where we first start to see reference to Channan, as the name of a person. It is said that a Chinese sailor who was shipwrecked on Okinawa hid in a cave at Tomari. It was from this man that ltosu supposedly learned the Naifuanchi kata, among other things (Gima, et al, 1986). In either case, it is known that Itosu was among the first to teach karate (toudi) publicly, and began teaching karate as physical education in the school system as early as 1901, where he taught at the Shuri Jinjo Primary School (Iwai, - 1992; Okinawa Pref., 1994). He also went on to teach at Shuri Dai-ichi Middle School and the Okinawa Prefectural Men's Normal School in 1905 (Bishop, 1999; Okinawa Pref., 1994, 1995). In addition to his "spearheading a crusade" (McCarthy, 1996) to modernize toudi practices and get it taught in the school system, Itosu was also known for his physical strength. it is said that he was able to crush a bamboo stalk in his hands (Funakoshi, 1976, 1988), once wrestled a raging bull to the ground and calmed it (Nagamine, 1986) and one could strike his arms with 2-inch thick poles and he would not budge (Iwai, 1992). Itosu's unique contributions to the art of Karatedo include not only his 1908 letter to the Japanese Ministry of Education and Ministry of War, expounding on the 10 precepts of Toudi training, but also the creation of several kata. These include not only the Pinan series, but also Naifuanchi Nidan and Sandan (Kinjo, 1991; Murakami, 1991), and possibly Kusanku Sho and Passai Sho (Iwai, 1992). Another kata that has often been attributed to Itosu is the Shiho Kusanku Kata (Kinjo, 1956a; Mabuni et al, 1938), but more recent evidence points to the actual originator of this paradigm to have been Mabuni Kenwa himself (Sells, 1995). In addition to creating several kata, the other kata that Itosu taught, such as Chinto, Uscishi (Gojushiho), Passai Dai, and Kusanku Dai, etc., had been changed from their original guises, in order to make them more palatable to his physical education classes (Kinjo, 1991).
Itosu Anko passed away in March 1915, leaving behind a legacy that very few today even recognize or comprehend.
Early Written References to Channan and Pinan
References to Channan can be found as far back as 1934. In the karate research journal entitled Karate no Kenkyu, published by Nakasone Genwa, Motobu Choki is quoted referring to the Chaiinan and the Pinan kata:
"I was interested in the martial arts since I was a child, and studied under many teachers. I studied with Itosu Sensei for 7-8 years. At first, he lived in Urasoe, then moved to Nakashima Oshima in Naha, then on to Shikina, and finally to the villa of Baron le. He spent his final years living near the middle school.
"I visited him one day at his home near the school, where we sat talking about the martial arts and current affairs. While I was there, 2-3 students also dropped by
and sat talking with us. Itosu Sensei turned to the students and said 'show us a kata.' The kata that they performed was very similar to the Channan kata that I knew, but there were some differences also. Upon asking the student what the kata was, he replied 'it is Pinan no Kata.' The students left shortly after that, upon which I turned to Itosu Sensei and said 'I learned a kata called Channan, but the kata that those students just performed now was different. What is going on?' Itosu Sensei replied 'Yes, the kata is slightly different, but the kata that you just saw is the kata that I have decided upon. The students all told me that the name Pinan is better, so I went along with the opinions of the young people.' These kata, which were developed by Itosu Sensei, underwent change even during his own lifetime." (Murakami, 1991; 120)
There is also reference to Pinan being called Channan in its early years in the 1938 publication Kobo Kenpo Karatedo Nyumon by Mabuni Kenwa and Nakasone Genwa. Mabuni and Nakasone write that those people who learned this kata as -Channan still taught it under that name (Mabuni, et al, 1938).
Kinjo Hiroshi, one of Japan's most senior teachers and historians of the Okinawan fighting traditions, and a direct student of three of ltosu's students, namely Hanashiro Chomo, Oshiro Chojo, and Tokuda Anbun,wrote a series of articles on the Pinan kata in Gekkan Karatedo magazine in the mid 1950’s. In the first installment he maintains that the Pinan Kata were originally called Channan, and there were some technical differences between Channan and the updated versions known as Pinan (Kinjo, 1956a).
Again according to Kinjo Hiroshi, Miyagi Hisateru, a former student of ltosu who graduated from the Okinawa Prefectural Normal School in 1916, stated that when he was studying under the old master, Itosu only really taught the first three Pinan with any real enthusiasm and that the last two seem to have been rather neglected at that time (Kinjo, 1956b). Although one can speculate about what this means, it is nevertheless a very interesting piece of testimony by someone who was "there."
Sakagami Ryusho, in his 1978 Karatedo Kata Taikan as well as Miyagi Tokumasa in his 1987 Karate no Rekishi both give extensive kata lists, and both list a kata known as Yoshimura no Channan (Miyagi, 1987; Sakagami, 1978). It is unknown who Yoshimura was, but he may have been a student of Itosu.
American karate historian Ernest Estrada has also stated that Kyoda juhatsu (1887-1968), a direct student of Higashionna Kanryo, Wu Xianhui Uapanese: Go Kenki), Yabu Kentsu, etc. and the founder of the To'onryu karatedo system, also knew and taught a series of two basic blocking, punching and kicking exercises known as Channan (Estrada, 1998).
Shiraguma no Kata
According to lwai Tsukuo, one of Japan’s most noted Budo researchers and teacher of Motobu Choki's karate in Gunma Prefecture, Motoburyu Karate-jutsu, which is being preserved by Choki's son Motobu Chosei in Osaka, contains what is known as Shiraguma no Kata, which he maintains used to be called Channan. He also states that this kata is "somewhat similar to the Pinan, yet different." (Iwai, 1997).
The Other Side of the Coin
The flip side to this theory states that Itosu did not create the Pinan kata, but
actually remodeled older Chinese-based hsing/kata called Channan. This theory states that Itosu learned a series of Chinese Quan-fa hsing from a ship-wrecked Chinese at Tomari, and reworked them into five smaller components, renaming them Pinan because the Chinese pronunciation "Chiang-Nan" was too difficult (Bishop, 1999).
It has been argued that the source for these Channan kata was a Chinese from an area called Annan, or a man named Annan (Bishop, 1999). On the other hand, others say that the man's name was Channan (Iwai, 1992). Still others go into even more detail, stating that Itosu learned these hsing/kata from a man named Channan, and named them after their source, later adding elements of the Kusanku Dai kata to create the Pinan (Gima, et al-; 1986; Kinjo. 1999).
There is also interesting oral testimony passed down in the Tomari-di tradition that is propagated in the Okinawa Tomaridi Karatedo Association of Tokashiki Iken
that states that ltosu learned the Channan/Pinan kata from a Chinese at Tomari in one day. The proponents of Tomari-di said that there was no need to learn "over-night kata" and that this is the reason that the Tomari traditions did not include instruction in the Pinan kata (Okinawa Pref., 1995).
This sentiment also echoes the statement by one of Itosu's top students, Yabu Kentsu, made to his students: "(sic) If you have time to practice the Pinan, practice Kushanku instead (Gima, et al, 1986, p. 86)."
Conclusion
While more research, such as in-depth technical analysis of Motobu's Shiragunm no Kata, needs to be done, the evidence at hand seems to point not to a "long lost kata" but rather to the constant and inevitable evolution of a martial art.
Although there is opposition, most of the primary written materials point to the fact that Itosu was indeed the originator of the Channan/Pinan tradition, based upon his own research, experience, and analyses.
However, in either case, Itosu Anko and his efforts left a lasting mark on the fighting traditions of old Okinawa, and will probably always be remembered as one of the visionaries who were able to lift the veil of secrecy that once enshrouded karatedo.
Bibliography
Bishop, M. (1999) Okinawan Karate. Teachers, Styles and Secret Techniques, 2nd Edition. Boston: Charles E. Tuttle, Co.
Estrada, E. (1998). Personal Communication: Kyoda and Chaman.
Fujiwara, R. (1990). Kakutogi no Rehishi (History of Martial Arts). Tokyo: Baseball Magazine.
Funakoshi G. (1976) Karatedo: My Way of Life. Tokyo: Kodansha International.
Funakoshi G. (1988) Karatedo Nyumon. Tokyo: Kodansha International. Tr. by John Teramoto.
Gima S. and Fujiwara R. (1986) Taidan: Kindai Karatedo no Rekishi wo Kataru (Talks on the History of Modem Karatedo). Tokyo: Baseball Magazine.
T. (1992). Koden Ryukyu Karatejutsu (Old-Style Ryukyu Karatejutsu). Tokyo: Airyudo.
lwai T. (1997) Personal Communication: Shiraguma no Kata.
Kinjo A. (1999) Karate-den Shinroku (True Record of Karate's Transmission). Naha: Okinawa Tosho Center.
Kinjo H. (1956a). Pinan no Kenkyu (Study of Pinan) Part 1. Gekkan Karatedo June 1956. Tokyo: Karate jiho-sha.
Kinjo H. (1956b). Pinan no Kenkyu (Study of Pinan) Part 2. Gekkan Karatedo August 1956.
Tokyo: Karate jiho-sha. Kinjo H. (1991) Yomigaeru Dento Karate I Kihon (Return to Traditional Karate Vol. 1, Basic Techniques)- video presentation. Tokyo: Quest, Ltd.
Mabuni K. and Nakasone G. (1938) Karatedo Nyumon (Introduction to Karatedo). Tokyo: Kobukan.
McCarthy, R (1996) Capsule History of Koryu Karate. Koryu Journal Inaugural Issue.
Australia, International Karate Research Society.
McCarthy, P (1999) Ancient Okinawan Martial Arts: Koryu Uchinadi, Vol. 2. Boston: Charles E. Tuttle, Co.
Miyagi T. (1987) Karate no Rekishi (The History of Karate). Naha: Hirugisha.
Motobu C. (1932) Watashi no Toudijutsu (My Karate). Tokyo: Toudi *********
Murakami K. (1991). Karate no Kokoro to Waza (The Spirit and Technique of Karate). Tokyo: Shin jinbutsu Oraisha.
Nagamine S. (1986) Okinawa no Karate Sumo Meijin Den (Tales of Okinawa's Great Karate and Sumo Masters). Tokyo: Shinjinbutsu Oraisha.
Nihon Karate Kenkyukai (1956) Zoku: Karatedo Nyumon (Introduction to Karatedo: Continued). Tokyo: Wakaba Shobo.
Okinawa Prefecture Board of Education (1994). Karatedo Kobudo Kihon Chosa Hokokusho (Report of Basic Research on Karatedo and Kobudo). Naha: Nansei.
Okinawa Prefecture Board of Education (1995). Karatedo Kobudo Kihon Chosa Hokokusho 11 (Report of Basic Research on Karatedo and Kobudo Part 11)@ Naha: Nanasei.
Sakagami R. (1978) Karatedo Kata I'aikan (Encyclopedia of Karatedo Kata). Tokyo: 00
Nichibosha.
Sells, J. (1995) Unante: Secrets of Karate. Hollywood: Hawley.
About the author.-
Joe Swift, native of New York State (USA), has lived in Japan since 1994. He works as a translator/interpreter, and serves as an assistant instructor at the Mushinkan Okinawa Karate Kobudo Dojo in Kanazawa, and is a Contributing Editor for Fighting Arts.

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Bernard,

Did you by the book or video? I'm wondering what everone thought of them.

Thanks,
Joe Cotton

Martial Art Style TSD

I meant, dod you buy them?

Martial Art Style TSD

Hello Joe,

No I do not have the book, I have e-mailed for info on books by Mr Swift but no reply yet, I'll post info on availability if I get a reply.
I do have the book by Elmar T Schmeisser PhD, about the Channan called , Channan:Heart of the Heian, it shows the Channan form and compares it to the Pyong Ahns, also shows some applications of the techniques.

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Bernard,

In the book by Elmar T Schmeisser PhD does it show the form's layout? In other words is it linear (Like Naihanchi)or is it like the Heian Kata (left to right and down the center)layout?

So, Mr. Swift has wrote a book on it as well as Elmar T Schmeisser PhD? I'm wondering if they support each other on the research of the form.

Joe

Martial Art Style TSD

No, Joe has never written a book on Channan. I've corresponded w/ him several times over the yrs, but have not met , as of yet. Sometimes, it may take a while for him to get back to you, as it does everyone usually from Okinawa, or Japan, for some reason. If you've asked about a book w/ the Channan Kata, I can tell you there is none. The book you have, I seriously doubt that is the Channan Kata, as on the cover it has the jump in P5. We have to remember that in the Okinawan version of this Kata that there was no jump, it is a grab & throw; and not done in the air. This was a change made by Funaskoshi. Then again, he might of taken the Channan Kata, and reverse enginered them, into a Shotokan like kata . But, if that was the case I would ask why ? I think if somone would actually find these kata, they would not alter them, atleast I would hope, in my mind, as I would like to learn them as they were originally intended.
You should try to contact Al Martin, & paul Hart here in Florida. They both claim to know the Channan kata, even before this book came out. The other person you should contact, I believe is Chuck Chandler. I think he also claims to know the Channan kata, as well . Then once you learn the versions of these men , you can compare them to eachother, if you end up w/ a bunch of different Kata, you probablly wasted your time. This kata is like that of the SRJK, hardly no one knows it, & would be hard to even confirm if it is the real deal beacuse of that fact. I personally have enough to work on right now, then to try to track down this Kata, but if you have the time, good luck!

David

Hi David,

Thanks for the response. I came across the article by Joe swift and was reminded of my hunt for the Channan. I remember you had asked around for me while in Okinawa and had no luck. I had a guy in Australia who was going to send me the form, but he didn't get back to me. I have heard of different people who supposedly know the form, but then they don't come across with it. I ended up losing interest but, I am still curious to what it looks like is all. I will try to get ahold of the gentlemen you mentioned when time permits.of course if any of the lurkers out here will shed light I would be start hunting again.

Happy Turkey Day

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Dr Schmeisser has a video out about the Channan also:
http://www.bushido-kai.net/budoya/video.html

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

I was going to mention that. He has a book and video out on the form. I have the book (a little hard to follow at times). I haven't gotten the video yet (it's a little pricey) but I may pick it up someday. At one point I considered dropping the 5 Pinan in favor of resurrecting the Channan form. For the time being, I've chose to continue with the Pyong Ahn series. I may change my mind in the future. The problem is that the Channan form is rather advanced and just doesn't fit into a Gup curriculum as we currently have to teach in order to keep students (i.e. simple forms easily learned so you can build a HABIT of practice and LOVE of the arts). The Channan form obviously is one that you would practice for many years before becoming accomplished with it...but it appears to make much more sense than the Pinan forms in terms of readily viewed applications. I haven't finalized the curriculum for my Mi Yong Kwan...and I may utilize a series of my own basic forms for Gups and use Channan to replace the Pyong Ahns. I want to study on this a bit more. Changing a curriculum is a very big and very serious step and it should never be entered into lightly. It can and WILL cost you students usually when you do it. It also further seperates you from the parent (i.e. the MDK) by making your curriculum too divergent from an established one (the SBD Fed found this out when the MDK changed over to the new forms. Boy did that cause an exodus). However, there is something to be said for standing on your own merits and being a true innovator. No one ever established a great Kwan by merely repeating the material they learned from any single source.

JH

I think that if you change the core curriculum too much, you don't have Tang Soo Do anymore but an off shoot of TSD, I could see changing the 3 basic forms , or swapping out other forms but not going to far away from the classical TSD model. If you swapped the 5 Pyong Ahn for the Channan who's version would it be? Schmeisser has a Dai/Sho version I have heard that Australian TSD has a Channan and there is another out there, can't recall who has it.


b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

If I were to teach my version of Shuri Te, & somehow learned the real Channan Kata, I would w/o a doubt teach the Channan Kata instead of Pinan , if I were on my own. However, I have been playing w/ Pinan San Dan again, & it has some really good stuff in it. I guess I could just teach the bunkai if I wanted too. I do plan on picking up the book, & bringing it w/ me on my trip back to Okinawa next year, or perhaps sending it to my instructor to see if he can confirm if these Kata are the real deal. I do know of atleast 2 other people that are might know atleast a lil' something something about these kata. However, I do not know if they would be willing to share it, as they might be affraid they might give it to somone who will do as the good DR has done, and write a book, or put together a video on it, for profit. That would my issue as well, if they were willing to share this gift w/ me , as well. But, I have agreed w/ B to help him out as best as I can. So keep an eye out, & keep your fingers crossed, hopefully soon(within the next few yrs, lol, were talking Okinawa time here), we'll have something figured out.

David

Yes, those are points to consider...and I give considerable thought to this frequently. As I said, I haven't made any gross changes such as that would be, however, I am leaning in that direction. Nonetheless...to say I wouldn't be doing Tang Soo Do anymore is rather uninformed and obtuse. I obviously WOULD still be doing Tang Soo Do...just not MOO DUK KWAN Tang Soo Do. But then again, as I stated, I already am not doing Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do anyway. I'm doing Mi Yong Kwan Tang Soo Do. It could easily be argued that no one else is doing MDKTSD either...as the MDK officially changed over to SBD and instituted new curriculum in 1995. If you stayed with the MDK then you are now doing SBD while if you left you might be doing TSD...just not MDK TSD.

And that is the mess we are left with.

JH

Why not add Channan along with the Pinan instead of dropping the Pinan?

Also, anyone know if the form Channan runs in a straight line like Naihanchi or Chinto? Or does it have a layout like the Pinan?

I read that there is an old Chinese Kung Fu form in the Chito Ryu style and it is closely guarded Has anyone else heard of it?

Joe Cotton

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Mr.Cotton,

Do you happen to know the name of the Kata? I have Dr.Chitose doing all of the Chito Ryu Kata on video , that I am aware of. I'd be interested in finding out more.

David

Well...first....I already think there are TOOOO MANNNYY FOOOORRRMS! So adding another one is like trying to push down that 'waffer thin mint' that causes you to explode. All the respectable experts will tell you you are better off just doing a few forms than trying to collect everything out there. That doesn't mean you can become familiar with most of the forms in existence....just don't take it upon yourself to practice or teach them all. Essentially, you should have no more than three that you really, really, really spend a lot of time and concentration on to get to the greatest depths of forms understanding.

And as to the Channan forms embusen, it is based upon Chinese characters so...no...it isn't in a straight line nor does it exactly follow and 'I' pattern like the Pinan Kata do. It is more like a Chinese form.....it goes where it needs to.

JH

David,

Try this link to begin with,

http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes/Pages/article33.htm

Here is one paragraph that basically describes it:

“The list of kata studied in Chito Ryu is small compared to other schools of today. Chitose had settled on a few common kata used by many, Bassai, Chinto, Kusanku, and Sanchin, plus a group used as preparatory kata, Niseishi (sho and dai) to work up to Sanchin, and Rohai (sho and dai). He also included a few he wished to see preserved from his teachers of old, Shihohai and Ryusan from Hanashiro Chomo, plus his Tenshin, Sochin, Sanshiryu, and the family kata Rochin. He was known for his Kung Fu No Kata performed at the many demonstrations he attended. This old kata was between 40-45 minutes long and in it was shown the old ways with soft flowing hand techniques, grappling and joint strikes. Through the many years of training he was quite adept at these moves, having accumulated about 400 points on the body to attack. These old skills are slowly being lost as the sport aspect takes precedence today. David Akutagawa, head of Renshikan, an offshoot of Chitose's teachings, is researching these skills to include them in his system and pass them on to future karate ka.”

I’ve seen other descriptions of it but need to look for the links, none said anything about 40-45 minutes to perform.

I have an old video of the son demonstrating all the Kata except the Kung Fu form.

Chuzo Kotaka, I'm pretty sure he has it on film even though he is a ****o Ryu stylist.

Jim Cotton

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

David,

I heard you can view film and photos of the Kung Fu No Kata at the Chitoryu Headquarters in Japan.

But thats what I heard, and what you can do might be two different things. Here is the link to the headquarters unfortunately my browser doesn't show the Kanji just scrambled text.

http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~chitoryu/

Also, another thing thats interesting is the pictures in the back of the So Bahk Do Dae Kahm shows some Japanese Karate members. None have patches but a couple pictures are very clear and appears to be the head of the Canadian Chito Ryu. He's wearing these huge glasses. I'm wondering what that connection could be, any ideas?

Joe

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

No, I do not know anything of the connection. But, please ck out my website when you get a chance, & look at my TSD page . On it , I talk briefly about a Koichi Kondo Sensei , who from what I gather studied/taught a style now known as Rembukai. They were originally part of the All Japan Karate Do Federation, of which Chitose was part of , & Chito Ryu actually uses the AJKF patch for their patch now, w/ a modification on the kanji. So my guess is, is that Hwang KJN might of been somehow aligned , or tried to join the AJKF at one point in time, but this is just a guess. In regards to Kung Fu No Kata , You might look to Sakamoto Sensei , who broke off from Chitose to create what he calls Ryu Sei-Chito Ryu . I have seen some footage , look a bit eccentric for my tastes, but you might like it who knows. If you could post a copy of the pic you were talking about, maybe I can help identify some of the Japanese Sensei you are talking about, as well. Hope to hear from you soon.

David

David,

I don't think any pictures can be posted on this message board.

What is your website url?

Joe

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

www.angelfire.com/fl5/okinawagojuryu is the 1 I was talking about. You can ck out my other one too , it's:
www.okinawagojuryu.org , but I dont have any TSD info there.

David

I have been very busy researching his form , with the help of Dave Sommers and many online friends, I believe I may have tracked the most direct link to the Channan Hyung, still being practiced.
will keep you posted, here is a hint, it's not the Elmar Schmiesser versions


b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Dont know, B!

David

Well , I did say "May" not "Have" LOL

talk to you at 2

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

Well, I have been sidetracked lately, but what I have so far, is
Three versions of Channan,

Elmar Schmiessers version,
Paul Harts version(supposed to be the actual real deal)
One by Choki Motobu liniage(?)

Anyone else find more?
Did anyone make it to Sensei Harts Seminar on Channan?

b

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do

I had a nice talk with Sensei Al Martin, who knows and has taught the Channan 1-2 Kata for 30 years, they are not the ones that Elmar does, or the ones that Motubo Sensei may do, Next time I go down to FL I am invited to go learn them, no strings, Sensei Al Martin I found to be a genuine guy, very knowledgable on the history of the Kata. They are very basic Kata,more along the lines of the TDKs Chunji, more later, Also learned more about a certain Gentleman and his lineage, David e-mail me I tell you about it.

Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do