On another board, I was reading about a speciffic form, & they started discussing applications. On that board, there was a Master there, that said all the years he's been training that he has never had somone explain to him the applications to the form. My question is, what to you makes a master? I would think if you are a Master, & allow others to call you master, that you would know the applications of the form's you train, correct? To me, if you are doing Kata/Hyung w/o learning application you might as well be doing ballet. What would be the purpose of studying Kata/Hyung, if you do not study bunkai? To me it just doesnt make sense; and I do'nt know how you could call yourself a master, if you dont know what you are doing (in the Kata/Hyung). This is just my opinion, & others might get ******* but I am sticking by it. Let me hear your thoughts!
David
David,
I agree, by the time you reach "Mastery" and even before, you should be extracting / studying the bunkai / applications of the forms you have been doing , or else you are not fully understanding or you are simply fooling yourself.
b
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
I have been a black belt in Tang Soo Do for about 19 almost 20 years now and I don't like to be called master. Perhaps it is my age, but I had a name badge with Master Jamie Yowell at an event a little while ago as I was a VIP and it felt wrong to me.
Now, here is why...though I am an instructor I find everyday in the martial arts things that I do not know and at times despite my experience I never feel like I know more than there is out there to know.
I came to this realization however, there is always more out there to be known than I will ever know, even though I learn daily new things about Martial Arts, I will never know everything and heaven forbid I will discover that things I thought I knew were wrong or I really didn't "know" them.
I know the meanings of my forms, but I find that sometimes I have been in error "what I was taught was incorrect" and I adjust and change. This is an ongoing process. Some forms I have learned recently I am still seeking the meaning behind all of the moves "but I am also seeking the meaning still behind Geicho Hyung Il Bu" always open to a well thought out presentation or interpretation.
I have been in Martial since I was 5, 28 years and it is a constant state of learning. When should I grab the title of Master? Is admitting I do not know something automatically disqualify me from using such a title? Again, you will not hear my students call me master or see it on my website or here to me refer to myself as one...but should I know everything before I have attained that title?
My answer to my own questions is this, a true master is in fact nothing more than a student of the martial arts. A true master realizes they are a student and strives to increase his or her knowledge regarding the martial arts. A true master does not pretend to have the answer to every question and is not afraid to look at their students and say I do not know. Heck, this happens to me more often than I like to admit and my students question spurns me on to find the answer increasing my knowledge.
What about Medical Doctors? They do not always know what is wrong with a patient, but we respect them. They at times learn through studies or advances that the treatment they have been prescribing is wrong or ineffective, and that there is another treatment that works better so they change. Do we want the Doctor that despite new studies or advances refuses to admit he has been doing something wrong and continues to use a treatment that is wrong or ineffective?
All I am saying is that I much prefer for my masters to be honest when they do not know something than for them to pretend that they do. As for what you should know as a master, that really beats me. I can't even for sure tell you or quantify it. Grand Master Myung was a Master, Grand Master Tirschel is a master and after speaking to Master Penfil several times I know him to be a Master. But, I have heard in my conversations with each of them at one time or another without missing a beat say they did not know something regarding Martial Arts. This honesty definitely does not detract from what they do know.
As for the master on the other board, guess you have to make your own mind if the title fits. But admitting that you do not know something does not necessarily in my view disqualify someone from being a true master, not seeking the answers and building on what one already knows perhaps on the hand just might.
Sorry so long winded, I am certainly no master of the truncated post :)
Jamie Yowell
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
I certainly agree we do not know it all. However, You should know some applications. True mastery is an endless quest, we are always learning. I have always had a hardtime accepting when somone calls themselves a master, and requiring their students to call them such a title. I have always thought of it, as being a bit egocentric, myself. However, nowadays, this is the accepted norm. Just my thoughts on the subject.
David
Hi David! Greetings all.
First as Ive stated before ....In martial arts a master is one that is considered to have mastered the basics....and Bunkai should be part of this. Sadly and its not any fault of the student...Do to lack of knowledge and understanding the bunkai was not taught in Tang Soo Do. A lot of explinations but not bunkai. I remember practicing Pyung Ahn E Dan in my younger days and knowing there was more to it. And the information we recieved was not accurate....for instance the reinforced block...song soo makee...I remember being told we were reinforcing the blocking arm against an object like a chair...?????? Not! The non striking arm actually is controlling the attackers arm. Low block?....to block a kick? not Practicle....could work . lol In our hyung looking left...step out with our left leg (open up our center) putting ourselves in a direct line for a strike..kick or punch. to block a kick here....no way. but if your attacker has grabbed your wrist...stepping out with your front foot and striking midway up his forearm using the Ulna...activating a pressure point...comming down on it...this would be the better application.. The punch that would follow may not be a punch at all....by controlling the attackers arm with your left step forward and punch? actually your too close to be effective...but if you strike the jaw line with a forearm strike not only will you render your attacker unconcious...it sure looks like a punch. This afternoon we were working with the dans...on bunkai...pyung Ahn E Dan for example...one of my dans is also a dan in Hapkido...I was explaining the opening sequence of Pyung Ahn E dan..I had him grab both my wrist...reversing the hold on him...now I had control of his arms...stepping across his body and turning counterclockwise in hugal jasee..raising up my arms...this put me exacxtly in the hand position of The opening of Pyung Ahn E Dan ...By brining my right arm over to my left shoulder it caused his forearm to hit a pressure point located on his opposit arm...above the elbow...causing him sever discomfort...the next move with my right like an upper cut would blow his arm out as I threw him...which I didnt lol ...he seen hapkido tecniques within my applications. We have to rethink our basic motions...and keep an open mind. low block....low strike...exposing the elbow holding the wrist with the left hand and activating a pressure point just above the elbow...this is a rubbing point...small circles using the ulna. looks like ha dan makee. Our Soo Do...some say the okinawan and japanese way is the correct bunkai...but later Ill get into this..we bring our hands over to our hips...this is devastating! But Ill save that for another time. As far as mastering the art....attempt to master the basics....
MD Master?
Just A White belt that Refused to Quit!
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do Martial arts Society