There is a tournament in early May (the JW Classic)
http://www.wtkdc.com/jwclassics/
I'll be competing in the ultimate TKD challenge (3 korean kata all in a row, competitors must wear all white or white with trim dobahks)
Two questions: Anyone else in the area going?
And I'm trying to decide on which hyung/kata/poomse to do.
I'm choosing from the following TSD
Kae Bek (ITF)
Sip Soo
O Sip Sa Bo
Empi
Lohai
Shihoken (Sa Bang Kwan)
(I know mostly korean versions of the japanese kata, not any of the newer TSD hyungs, so other suggestions should be within that family of forms)
It'll be interesting to figure out a balance of length (short, med, and long) and *feel* of the forms.
I think I'll do (as of right now) Loahi, Kae Bek and O Sip Sa Bo. Lohai is short, but can show off my body and quickness for my size(I'm 6'7") and Kae Bek can show off some great kicks (love the first twist kick). O Sip Sa Bo is much more grounded. The only issue is Kae Bek and O Sip Sa Bo are pretty long, so I'll have to get my cardio UP!
Cheers,
John
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
Love to help ,but I don't know some of those forms, are they ITF TKD forms?
Shihoken, Kea Bek, ?
b
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
Kae Bek is ITF and Shihoken is a mystery, but popular in many local tsd schools here. O Sip Sa Bo is basically Shotokans Gojushiho, etc. :)
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
Some time back I watched some students , 2nd and 3rd degree black belts run through their forms as though they were one , but , they were not as impressive as the long gung fu forms which in turn then reminded me of some chineese practitioners who are excellent martial artists but only practice one form which brings me to the school of thought that the first form which should be the most practiced should be one's best form and therefor would be the form by which one's ability is judged .
I don't see the merit in the competition because if a student was only drilled in 3 advanced forms then a relative novice could outperform a blackbelt .
No , I sincerely believe that far too much importance is placed in forms
If I were you I would do the forms in this order.
Either start with
1. Sip Soo
or
1. RoHai (LoHai) - Reason I suggest Sip Soo is because my next suggestion will have plenty of one legged activity, but RoHai is good too and is more dynamic than Sip Soo which speaks to me as a more powerful but more strength and tension based form...ironically the tension part will tire you if done right...so both have good parts both have disadvantages.
2. Impi or (Wansu) - Because it is powerful and impressive...
3. Ending with O Sip Sa Bo - I love this form and seldom lose doing it, however it should come in 3rd position as it is physically more taxing than the other two and you can put everything you have left into it, just leave enough to remain standing while you get your scores :)
--I would check to make sure they do not have a list of acceptable Hyungs (katas) for the event too if you already havent and make sure those are on it if such a list exists. The reason I avoid most TKD tournaments (when they invite me) is because of such lists. :)
Now on that note good luck, I am usually dead ready to fall over after any one of them, but I spent some time (too short of a time) with a certain Korean master (now retired) who would not let me hold anything back in any form (and my conditioning stinks to boot).
Also on a side note, this master was big on forms, and their translation into real combat. He having used these techniques in actual warfare in the Jungles of Vietnam, his comrades in arms would testify to their effectiveness when he used them...I heard story after story about him walking into the bushes and few moments later dragging out lifeless combatants who were unfortunate enough to get a close and personal demonstration of the techniques contained in our forms. And this master emphasized almost exclusively forms, and for those techniques properly applied were "self-defense." My short time with him was a gift (perhaps I was unworthy of) that made me a better martial artists, made me realize there is much more I do not know than I know and reinforced the value of forms, repetition of movement, and the need to learn to apply those techniques to real life/practical situations.
I've heard it all from both camps, all I can say is that in 28 years of being in the Martial Arts, each year and every year for at least the past 15 the value of forms becomes ever more plain to me. This is why I am excited about trying to find some time to go to a seminar hosted by someone such as a master like Master Jay Penfil or drumming up enough interest to invite him or someone like him to Arkansas (understanding the techniques and what they do gives us the ability to apply them to self defense) and I am always looking for the effective technique behind the move or different ways moves can be applied, many moves have more than one or many more ways it can be used, a block is a block, but it also can be a strike, an arm break, a neck break, a vital point strike, a death blow...all of these things wrapped up into one innocuous looking block or technique. The forms in so many ways are truly valuable if we take the time to really learn about them, and then make the leap into how to apply the knowledge contained within into a practical situation.
I will shut up now and say no more, there are people much more qualified that sometimes visit this board to talk about the value of forms in actual self-defense if they so choose, but I really feel the camp that sees no value in forms in the long term quest for true martial knowledge are missing out on a huge part of what to me is the martial arts.
Jamie
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
Jamie,
Thank you for your reply. I'll let you know what I decide. I appreciate your thought behind the comments. I love Sip Soo, my foot sweeps in sparring are much more effective because of that form. Empi (Impi) is much fun and looks good on my body. I will be dogged after that and O Sip Sa Bo!
Cheers,
John
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
Jamie ,
Where did you get this Korean master in Vietnam story repeatedly going into the bush and draging out vc by virtue of his ability in forms ? You got to be kidding .... This guy would be famous . No offense but it just doesn't fit in with my reality of what Nam was .... Bet you didn't know they had their own form of martial art , some what similar to gung fu . I studied from a man named Trang from 66 to 72 .
No , I still can't find the merit in forms competition .... How do you guys feel about hapkido compared to tang soo do or taekwondo ... very little in the way of forms in hapkido .
John,
You're welcome, if you go with O Sip Sa Bo just remember (depending on the version you perform) it is a long form, and the biggest problem will be keeping your intensity up until complete. It is for me anyway. Let me know what you decide and then how it goes.
Hurt myself Wednesday and am competing Saturday and then doing a demo on TV (hopefully should be a part of the pay per view fights fox is running, but since it is in the intermission they will probably analyze through it LOL) Sunday night. This will be interesting as I am hobbling around, but luckily I was able to enlist some of my Team Illusion team mates and some friends from Benton to help out so we can put on a good show. Anyway, on Sat using O Sip Sa Bo in Traditional division, I just love that form.
Truth,
I heard the stories from many people that knew him over time, he never talked about his time in the war himself at least never to me, and when I asked him about it he told me to mind my own business I was a student and not his friend. I can only say that I believe that at the core of the stories lies the truth, even giving room for some embellishment which occurs naturally as eyewitness accounts move further away in time. Also, many things happen in war, there are many heros who do great things, yet only their friends and comrades often remember, especially when they themselves do not seek fame and glory for doing what they consider their duty.
My email address is posted here, if you would be honored if you would like to talk further I would love to correspond with you. Just drop me a line, and we can discuss this or anything further. I enjoy speaking to those with different view points, because by doing so often truth is uncovered, either my position in my own mind is strengthened, weakened, or sometimes I find I was in error all along. After all, better to find Truth than to live in ignorance. And truth is truth, no matter where one finds it or so it is said.
Jamie
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do
if you would be honored
Should have read
I will be honored...
Sorry, no disrespect was intended.
Jamie
Martial Art Style Tang Soo Do