For those inclined to gripe about recent releases, let's look back to those hideous Corgi Classics that attempted to replica ALF pumpers:



We have it quite good these days, that is for sure.

mjl

Location: Raleigh, NC, USA, Earth

I'm inclined to agree Mike. The selections out there is fantastic. The first diecast I ever bought was a Corgi ALF tillered aerial with the yellow ladder and oversized knobs for raising and extending the aerial. We've come a long way, baby.

I likewise got the Corgi ALF TDA as a Christmas present from my now mother-in-law in 1968. That started me on the road to ruin! Can't believe what is available to the collector today, and yet folks still gripe!! We ain't never had it so good.....

While the rear body is somewhat toy like by today's standards, at least the cab is shaped right & actually looks like an ALF!

Chariots ...I still have that one, still love it.

MY 1ST PIECE WAS THE CORGI SIMON SNORKEL ,BOUGHT IN THE EARLY 60S, PURCHASED AT A UPPER END STORE THERE WASNT ANY AMERICAN RIGS TO SPEAK OF . THEN CAME THE ALF TILLER EXCEPT FOR THE KNOBS IT WAS PRETTY WELL DONE. MOST FIRE APPARATUS WAS EUROPEAN,WE WILL NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE ,BUT TO THOSE COLLECTING FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS WE CAN APPRECIATE HOW FAR WE HAVE COME. THE 1ST TOWER LADDER WAS DONE IN PEWTER AND WAS SOLD AT MACK DEALERS ALONG WITH A PUMPER AND OTHER MACK RIGS, IN THOSE DAYS THAT WAS THE CATS ASS.HOW MUCH BETTER CAN THEY DO ,THE DIECASTS TODAY LOOK LIKE REGULAR RIGS SHRUNK DOWN .WE HAVE COME ALONG WAY AND LETS BE GRATEFUL FOR THAT

Location: BUFFALO NY

Guys the one pictured is a superdetailed one!!!!

I already told that 30 years ago I has bought the book American fire engine since 1900 and was dreaming on all the pumpers pictured in this. I never belived that one day I will have a lot of models out of it.

I sadly heard that due to the increase of prices of labor etc ... in China we will have less fire models in the next year. All the companies have cash flow problems; I heard a lot of poeple are living Corgi,
some are already away from other manufacturerers...

Patrick.

Location: Belgium

I have to agree with Jim. Even though the older Corgis are crude when compared to newer releases and most Code 3's, at least the cab has the correct shape. That is all-important for an ALF. Even the super-cheapo Model Power, Road Champs, and Play Art ALF's had the correct shape.

I am still incredulous that a company with Code 3's well-proven capabilities botched that Century so badly, in my eyes at least. Then they had the nerve to sell it. Sure, it was "sold out," but the eagerness of the consumer to buy a badly flawed product will just guarantee the supplier's indifference.

It gives an indication that many so called collectors don't know how to look at a model with a good eye...doesn't it?? aaand compare to the real thing. Sad really.

I want to add to what Rich said about early diecasts being European.

My first American piece of diecast "apparatus" was the early release of the ALF 900 mid-mount that was made by Tootsietoy. It looked really good to me back in 1969. I had the first type, where they actually bothered to show the trusswork on the ladder sections. Later ones had a one piece, solid ladder. There was also a "set;" consisting of an ALF pumper, a chemical truck, the ladder, and a Chief's Ford Bronco.

Then Corgi came out with the ALF TDA, and saved us all.

I got the Corgi ALF TDA on my 8th birthday back in 1972. I couldn't wait for my birthday to come because I was so excited to get this rig. I didn't care if the ladder was yellow or about the big knobs that raised and extended the ladder. It was just a cool toy! Now, looking back, it really was somewhat crude, compared to what we have today. But back in the day that ALF TDA was the cat's meow!

Yes, we are spoiled.

STEVE BROUGHT UP A GOOD RIG MADE BY TOOTSIE. WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE LIKE HO VERSION OR WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE TODAYS 1/64TH.ALTHOUGH THEY WERE KIND OF CRUDE THEY WERE ATLEAST FIRE TRUCKS . CORGI OPENED THE DOOR TO " REAL LOOKING " FIRE TRUCKS THAT WILL SOON BE 50 YEARS, DO YOU THINK CODE 3 WILL BE AROUND THAT LONG. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EARLY CODE 3S AND COMPARE THEM TO TODAYS NEW TOOLING THE EARLY ONES LOOK KIND OF CRUDE, BUT WE MUST BE GRATEFUL FOR CODE 3S CONTRUBUTION TO THE DIE CAST COLLECTING. WITH OUT THE EARLY CRUDE ONES ,HOW CAN THE COLLECTOR DISPLAY THE PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE I HAVE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS AND I STILL HAVE NOT SEEN THE PERFECT REAL RIG. HOW CAN WE EXPECT THE DIECAST MAKERS TO MAKE A PERFECT ONE

Location: BUFFALO NY

I have been in this hobby for over 30 years now, and in the business of selling fire apparatus & ambulances for 24 years. It has been fun watching the changes in the hobby and the business. When I started collecting there were just a few die casts and several model kits available, and it was great fun searching old stores and collectable shops for fire toys. Now we are up to our butts in great models with new ones coming out every week it seems to the point it is hard to keep up with the releases. One of my all time favorites is still the Tootsietoy L model Mack sedan cab pumper. Just a cheap dime store toy, but it has 'character' and represents a great period of apparatus. I still search toy shows etc. for them - in particular beat up ones that I pick up for a couple of bucks and then restore and detail. We are living in the golden age of fire models right now, so enjoy it while it lasts - nit pick it if you are so inclined, but I don't think this period of models with great detail at a very reasonable price will last much longer. What a great hobby!

Location: Coral Gables, FL

With all due respects to the above posts, you do have to cansider that in the early days, they were all TOYS, and were designed to have PLAY VALUE.
The early version of the ladder trucks HAD to have the knobs, so you could operate the ladder in a realistic fashion, one thing you cannot do today, as you have to hold the model in one hand, and pull the ladder up with the other, something you could do as a child at arms length with one finger and thumb, and watch the action all the way.
Toys I has as a child lasted years, the wheels were free rolling, you could handle them all day, and nothing FELL OFF.
Like the portable radio and the cell phone, models have come a long way, but are now designed NOT to be played with, the many pieces on them are too fragile, the tampo does not like the many acids on tiny fingers, and on some they dont seem to roll, the wheels catch, or rub, as they are only designed to be on a shelf in a curio.
Yes, they have improved over the years, but when I look back to the corgi toys from 1956, with the steering and jeweled lights, 2 tone paint and glass and interiors, we have not made THAT much progress in the 51 years.

Location: London UK

True, "Toys" are now considered "Collectors Items" and the costs have skyrocketed. "Other" Pumpers were expensive in 98 at $24.95 (plus individual shipping). Now they are three times that cost. Ladders were an expensive $39.95, now they require a bank loan.

The old Corgi ladder had knobs, and worked. It held up forever, and maybe the paint flaked off with rough use. The new C3 ladders break at the rear hinge if you breath heavily on it. Maybe they should incase every model in a plexiglass block, as delicate shipping is apparently not Job One?

In my opinon these older issues were a better value than products offered today. No matter how advanced technically.

As much as I like the current crop of highly detailed diecast items, my favorites are still the cast iron Hubley Ahrens Fox pumpers and diecast big Hubley 14" open cab ALF pumper of the early fifties. Other excellent diecasts were the Doepke ALF 700 series pumper & ladder. These could all be played with without doing much damage to the toy, unlike the current "collectables" that are for display only. Hate to sound like an "Old Timer", but having grown up in the fifties, I think the younger generation doesn't appreciate how great they have it now!

Don't forget the Smith-Miller Mack-L TDA of the fifties, or the midships that they did as well. Toys like those, along with Doepke, Buddy-L, Hubley, Tootsietoy, and the early Corgis, Dinkys, and Matchboxes of my childhood have a certain charm to some of us because they were our playthings, and bring back special memories.

The current diecast offerings aren't marketed as toys; they are "adult collectibles," with a suitably adult pricetag. I love them, but they don't have the same attraction for me as my toys do. Sure, the "toys" aren't comparable to Code 3 et al in terms of detail or accuracy, but I still wouldn't part with my Dinkys.

Younger collectors, let's say thirty on down, had different types of toys growing up. Nintendo was the big thing, or Transformers, Mutant Ninja Turtles, etc.

I wonder how many of them will be paying big bucks on ebay for a plastic Leonardo or Donatello turtles when they need to fill out their "collections" twenty years from now?

My first fire "toys" were Matchbox, Hotwheels, etc. and to this day still hold a special place in my collection, particulary the Code Red trucks that MB released in the early 80's that were based on a TV show. The only time I have given up on Matchbox were from 2001 until 2004 during the "Hero City" years with their absurd Hotwheel-ish castings. MB's are improving greatly now though.

My first real, nice truck was a Corgi ALF tiller lettered for Centerville. The first real truck I bought with my own money was Corgi's Boston Engine 33.

Growing up in the 1980's I did have a lot of the toys Steve mentioned, but the fire stuff was always the most important to me. I will say though, that old Transformers have brought me thousands of dollars on EBay...HUGE money in those, more money for fire trucks!

I think one advantage of growing up in the 50's was that we didn't have any of the electronic games & computer stuff that kids want now days. For Christmas my brother and I got either clothes or toys. I can remember Marx, Doepke Unit crane, Auburn rubber, Tootsietoy trucking and fire dept sets, Hubley, Wyandotte power shovel & low boy and of course an American Flyer set. The only thing that survived my childhood was a set of American Bricks building blocks that my grandkids play with now. How many kids play with building blocks & Tinker Toys these days?

"How many kids play with building blocks & Tinker Toys these days?"

None - since they don't know how to use their imagination or play creatively.

"The only thing that survived my childhood was a set of American Bricks building blocks that my grandkids play with now." - which is why all those other toys now go for big $$ on eBay.

Since this has devolved into a discussion of toys from our pasts that challenged the imagination, remember Lincoln Logs and one of my favorites, Kenner's Girder and Panel sets that allowed you to make buildings and roadways using plastic girders and vacuformed building and road panels? I had a very simple set of small wooden buildings as a kid that were little more than block of wood with windows and doors painted on. They're now at my mother's home and my kids take them out almost every time we visit, even though my youngest is 11...

Growing up in the 50's and 60's there were the Lincoln Logs, Erector Sets and the Kenner building sets along with Matchbox, Dinky and Corgi die casts. The outside sand box trucks were Tonka, Nylint, Hubley and some other real cheap plastic stuff. I remember a set of fire trucks that were plastic (think the manufacturer was Eldon - not sure) and were pretty accurate 70th Anniversary style Seagrave Engine and TDA. Have not seen them in any of the toy shows visited in recent years but would pick them up for the right price. They took a beating and were great fun with the ALF pumper by Nylint. A lot of those toys survived to be sold off at an auction by my dad while I was in the UK with the Air Force. I cried when I found out that the American Flyer train set with bridge, water tower and other accessories had been disposed of. That engine would have been worth good money these days. Oh well - those were the days.

Location: Oswego, NY

Doug,
If you want a reference to relive the "Good Ole Days" order a copy of "The Big Toy Box at Sears 1951-1969". It is 580 pages of reproductions of the old Sears Christmas toy catalog pages. A lot of good fire toys + many others that I had as a kid growing up in the fifties. Had forgotten many of them in the last 50 years. Has Lionel, Flyer, Marx train sets and all the big Marx play sets. Costs $ 33 with free shipping. I got mine on Amazon last week.

This thread has become an interesting trip dowm memory lane!

Speaking of Marx playsets, I had the "Battleground" set, which was a WWII theme. The soldiers (54mm) were American and German, and to this day are the best one-piece plastic castings I have ever seen. The accessories included very detailed machine-gun nests, an 88mm AT gun, a 155mm howitzer (both of them had rubber band firing mechanisms), and some unfortunately cheezy tanks which didn't measure up to the rest of the set. I used to play with it for hours on end.

There was also a Cavalry and Indians (sory, native Americans) set which included a big log fort. I wanted that one too, but never got it.

Now, does anyone remember the "Motorific" cars (and boats) by Ideal? I remember they used to practically give those things away around Christmas time at Esso (Exxon, or was it Citgo?) stations for a quarter or so, if your Dad filled 'er up.

I had a Smith Miller Mid Mount, with a Kenworth open cab. Someone stole it from my porch when I was ten. I was devistated. We also had the Tonka Pumpers with the fire hydrants. We put backing soda in hose for foam, and tortured the pooch constantly. I believe we went through at least four of those growing up.

Funny you bringing up the Kenner building sets. We had the Structure Sets, and the Bridge Sets. I'm talking about ten sets between the two of us. We even had one of the Monorail Sets. The ping-pong table looked like a big city most of the time with Dinky Toys and Lionel track.(we used the table as the dog would be Godzilla if we ever built on the floor).

I also remeber REMCO battery operated stuff. All had great play value, especilly the SM and Tonka stuff. You could beat it like a Red Headed Stepchild, and it still worked. Can't say that for anything today.

Sometime in the late 40's, I was givena fire set that had a Station with 2 pumpers and a building that was on "fire". You would crank the doors open and it would ring a bell at the same time. The pumpers could then go to the "fire". The fire was 2 pieces of thin wood that pivoted out of the way when hit with water from the pumpers to simulate the fire being put out. This building has a water resivoir that fed water to a fire hydrant on the street. The pumpeers could hookup to the hydrant and then you would push a button on the pumper to pump water on the "fire". Can't remember who made it but was fun to play with.

Sometime in the late 40's, I was given a fire set that had a Station with 2 pumpers and a building that was on "fire". You would crank the doors open and it would ring a bell at the same time. The pumpers could then go to the "fire". The fire was 2 pieces of thin wood that pivoted out of the way when hit with water from the pumpers to simulate the fire being put out. This building has a water resivoir that fed water to a fire hydrant on the street. The pumpeers could hookup to the hydrant and then you would push a button on the pumper to pump water on the "fire". Can't remember who made it but was fun to play with.

Alan,

That was the Keystone fire station, made circa 1950. I had one as a kid, long gone, but managed to get one new in the box (with fire building)about 20 years ago. They made a two and three bay version. Both versions were classic two storey fire stations. Station were constructed of Masonite with very good graphics. Large letters "KEYSTONE FIRE DEPARTMENT" across the front just under the roof line. Lettering over the doors said "Chief" (3 bay version), "Hose" & "Ladder". Check out E-Bay, they appear on occasion. Hope you find one!!