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Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

There was a pursuit in a nearby county. A Deputy responding to aid in this pursuit ran off the road and was killed. The Commonwealth's Attorney filed murder charges against the pursued felon. The Judge threw them out and the CA said he thought that would be the case but he tried anyway.

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

All good responses...but let change the scenario based on what everyone appears to support - which is the following - if anyone is killed while responding to or the event of a crime, the person who originally brought about said crime should be charged with murder (or manslaughter?). Every state in the union has a code in their vehicle section which states that every driver shall AT ALL TIMES, drive at a speed which allows them to maintain control of their vehicle. Specifically, under Illinois law, Code Section 95 1/2, 11-601(a) "Driving too fast for conditions", a driver may be cited (interpreted as driver was breaking the law) for driving at a speed that was unsafe and led to an accident, even if the speed was under the posted speed limit, and even if the exact speed was unknown. So person A, 30 year old woman, married, with 3 kids, driving 35 miles per hour in a 40 mile per hour zone, skids off the road and crashes. Technically, she violated the law (emphasis on violated the law, meaning she committed a criminal act) because she was driving too fast for conditions and she failed to maintain control of her vehicle at all times. So now we have officers and fd responders going to the scene of her "criminal act". Note I replaced accident because she was violating the law which caused the incident. In the event any of the responders a). has a heart attack and dies, or b) dies for any other reason en route or on the scene...using the logic above, she should be charged with their death. Had she not broken the law (driving too fast for conditions), they would not have not had to respond. So, she should be held accountable for their deaths? If you really think closely about this logic, you will see the flaws. 99% of all "accidents" can be classified as 1 party or the other breaking a law...driving too fast for conditions. Not a jury in the world would convict her, and not a prosecutor in the world would bring charges.

The laws that you are referring to, "deaths in relation to the commission of a felony" are not meant for helicopter pilots that crash into each other because they are not paying attention. They are meant to apply in situations where a kid runs out in the middle of the street while a vehicle is pursued and is struck by either the driver or a police officer. They are meant for when a person is shot by 1 person, and there are other people with the person..(get away driver, look-out)...etc...they are meant for an officer having a heart attack while attempting to subdue a person...all good reasons. The number 1 and 2 causes of death for all public safety professionals are heart attacks and vehicle accidents. If what you are suggesting is true...every heart attack and every vehicle death due to a call for service resulting from a crime, should be punishable...at that is simply not the case. Otherwise we would have a whole lot of grannies and family men/women imprisoned.

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

The difference is the police are responding to the flight from prosecution because they are enforcing the law and protecting the public.

The news people are covering the flight to compete in a ratings game. Pure and simple. There was no need for them to be there. I'll buy they have the right to be there. However, they have the responsibility to do it in a safe manner and follow all laws in the process. Typically, pilots are flying by some sort of fly by sight rules. In this case, it appears that one or both pilots paid too much attention to the chase and not enough attention to being the pilot.

To charge the suspect for that is ridiculous.

Here's another scenario:
If someone is driving and listening to the news reports of the flight, and being distracted, runs over and kills someone crossing the street, are the police or DA going to charge the driver or the suspect?

Lets hope the DA has at least an ounce of common sense and doesn't waste taxpayer money bringing charges that get dismissed by the judge.

Location: TX

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

That's why we have judges folks. As a retired Law
Enforcement Officer I can tell you that in my home
state of RI that this perp would be charged probably
with 2nd Degree Murder and/or Manslaughter in the 1st
because of the end result of this pursuit. The thinking is that if he had NOT done this the event would not have happened. The level of charges would also depend on the original offense he committed, i.e. was it a felony and/or misdemeanor, that's why we have Departments of Attorneys General and those are the folks who have the final say as to how the
suspect is charged. The arresting police can recommend and lodge charges based on the events but the AG's office has the final say. If it goes all the way to a true bill of indictment then its up to the prosecution, the jury and the Judge to make the
final decision as to guilt/innocence and what sentence is given. Off the record I would hope that
this perp fell down alot on his way to the station.
Ronbo

Location: Florida

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

Maybe the stairs were slippery

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

What if these two news helicopters were covering a fire in a building that turned out to be arson and crashed? Would the arsonist then be held accountable for their deaths? How about if it was determined that the fire was the result of improper installation of electrical wires? Would the electricians then be held for their deaths? I would guess not. Even though these news personnel were within thier rights to cover this story, they were not acticng in an offical law enforcement capacity. Like I said, it's sad and I feel bad for the families that lost loved ones, but it is clearly not the suspects fault. These two pilots could have easily collided while covering a parade or sporting event or some other incident where there was no police involvement. One or both pilots made a fatal error and as sad as that is, it's the way it is.

Location: Baltimore

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

Rescue 131, that exact thing happened here in CA. My partners uncle was an air attack pilot for CDF. He was involved in a mid-air crash with another tanker pilot and both were killed while fighting a wildfire. The state charged the arsonist that set the fire with manslaughter. It didn't work though. Any half way decent defense attorney could defend that one. In CA if somebody is killed during the commission of a felony, you can be charged with that death. I think it's a big stretch though to charge the guy with the death of the news crews. Cops, FF's, etc have to be there. News crews don't. It's their job to cover a story, but it all comes down to ratings and who gets the best story. Why do you need multiple news copters covering the same exact story?? For ratings, nothing else but that. I agree with you, where does it end?? The blame has to stop somewhere.

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

Here in GA in the neighboring county (Coweta) about two years ago a suspect was fleeing from police. A sheriff's deputy performed a pit manuever that forced the suspect off the road. The suspect of course, wasn't wearing a seat belt and in the ensuing accident was left paralyzed. He hired a lawyer and sued the deputy. The case went all the way to the US Supreme Court, which ruled this spring that the deputy was not liable. One win for the good guys!

Location: GA

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

Guys,

It's called felony murder rule...if in the commission of a felony your actions cause someone elses death you are criminally liable for their death and are charged accordingly. If not for this guys actions, there would not have been a helicopter crash and 4 lives would not have been lost, pretty simple concept that is covered in basic criminal law courses.

And my response is in no way meant to condesend towards anyone.

Stop Passing The Buck

The TV Station (owners & managers), plus the pilots were 100% responsible due to carelessness. Four are dead for Higher TV Ratings. These jackassess are lucky they didn't kill anyone on the ground. To blame the perp is just passing the buck. If either of the pilots had survived, they would be facing Involuntary Manslaughter, and a permanent revocation of their pilots licences.

My 2 cents.

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

What Felony was the perp performing? I guess I haven't seen the whole story.

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

But, the TV news helicopters did not HAVE to be following this guy. They were not acting in a law enforcement capacity. If these were two police helicopters keeping track of where this suspect was heading, then I would 100% agree, it was the suspects fault. In this case, it was carelessness/pilot error and no ones fault but their own.

Location: Baltimore

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

I live in Phoenix and until a year ago worked in the tall building across the street from the crash site. The news copters have always been to close but the real story this weekend is that a Phoenix police officer was shot and killed LOD and it is second page news.

I have no respect for the media as far as I'm concerned they are second class citizens.

The chase it sounds like they were trying to do a DUI stop and the guy took off. Rammed a patrol car, car jacked another vehicle. Don't know if the guy was illegal or not but AZ will throw the book at him. There is no mercy or understanding here.

Pete

Location: Glendale, AZ

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

In fact, it appears that he committed multiple felonies, eluding, carjacking, assault on an officer, et al.

Re: Helicopter crash question - not diecast related

Yes this clown did a lot of wrong stuff he's probably looking at a lot of jail time already. The state AJ is tough and the judges are tougher.

Location: Glendale, AZ

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