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THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

For those of you who haven't read the latest Code 3 debaucle, which was posted on fireengines.net, there are MAJOR quality control issues on the Philly Squirt - you know the one that not a lot of people are happy was released to begin with?

Out of 11 posts, 9 of them had major defects in their models, and the other 2 were not exactly thrilled with the shoddy workmanship (ie loose fitting doors and other pieces that might fall off). That is 82% that have MAJOR issues, and 100% if you include those with minor issues.

Even after contacting Code 3, buyers are told to send the item back parcel post, and a new one will be sent once they receive it. As one overseas collector pointed out, he will now not receive his replacement model until May - what the hell kind of customer service is that? That would mean Code 3 would have his money for several months, and he has nothing to show for it.

Seeing as this country is currently in a recession, or very near it, you would think Code 3 would be bending over backwards to get your dollars, especially $200 for this piece (which is turning out to be garbage).

If I were you, I would be on the first plane to China to find out what was going on. Again, here is the link with several pictures:

http://www.modelfiretrucks.net/smf/index.php?topic=6134.0

Location: The twilight zone

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

While I totally agree with the post you really should get John Dunkel's name right if you're going to title your post as you did.

Not defending the quality control at all. Hell, how can you when there's no quality to control.

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Yeah my bad - I always have memory lapses with names.

Location: The twilight zone

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

So did you receive a defective model?

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

No - I already had the other Philly and did not feel the need to buy a $200 repaint. I'm just making others aware of the problem that didn't already know of it.

Location: The twilight zone

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

No, what you mean is "I already had the other Philly and did not feel the need to buy another model of it", not a frigging repaint.
I am getting really fed up with people using that word all the time, like its a bad thing.
To my knowledge, a repaint is one thats gone away and come back another color.
And code 3 have only ever done one repaint, and that was the Canadian Windsor engine, they did one in lime, and another in red and white,which was the same engine going from Eng 10 to Eng 1.
That my friend, was a repaint.
All others are "another model"

Location: London UK

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Nope.....Not ANOTHER Model....It is a RE-NUMBER,which actually is WORSE than a Repaint.
So,we will now use the "Re-Number" badge...

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

And Harrison Macks were Repaints...As was Baltimore R/W & Org/Wht TDAs...
As were Orlandos Sutphens....And LAFD Seagraves(Slime,Blue,Red)..And Wash.,D.C. Seagrave TDAs..And NYFD Slime Macks...And NYFD Gutbuckets....
I could go on & on,but I think you will get the jest of the info....But,Maybe Not!

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

THEY COULD NOT GET THE ADDRESS OF THE HOUSE RIGHT......2110 STREET?????
TRY 2110 MARKET STREET.....

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Hey Rick, that was because of security reasons.

Location: London UK

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

They also got the roster wrong. SQURT 43 is Engine 43. There is no seperate truck. I emailed them about that and they still have done changed/corrected it.


Brian

Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Meaning the truck should have been lettered "Engine" instead of SQURT? Not sure what the above post means?

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

On the C3 web site, they state that the SQURT is housed with Engine 43, Ladder 9 and Medic 7. SQURT 43 is Engine 43. There is no seperate Engine 43.


Brian

Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

So the question still remains.....
Is it Engine 43 OR Squrt 43?????????

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

From Wikipedia:

Engine Company Ladder Company Firehouse Location
Engine 1 Snorkel 5 711-23 South Broad Street
Engine 2 Ladder 3 2426-32 North 2nd Street
Engine 3 200-10 Washington Avenue
Engine 5 Ladder 6 4221-29 Market Street
Engine 6 Ladder 16 2601 Belgrade Street
Engine 7 Ladder 10 3798 Kensington Avenue
Squirt 8 Snorkel 2 101-15 North 4th Street
Squirt 9 Ladder 21 6900 Germantown Avenue
Engine 10 Ladder 11 1357 South 12th Street
Engine 11 6th and South St
Engine 12 4447 Main Street
Engine 13 Ladder 1 1541-47 Parrish Street
Engine 14 Ladder 15 1652-54 Foulkrod Street
Engine 16 1517-19 Belmont Avenue
Foam 18 8205 Roosevelt Boulevard
Engine 19 Ladder 8 300 E. Chelten Avenue
Engine 20 Ladder 23 133 N. 10th Street
Engine 22 Ladder 31 3270 Comly Road
Engine 24 1200 S. 20th Street
Engine 25 2931 Boudinot Street
Engine 27 1901-15 Oxford Street
Engine 28 2520 E. Ontario Street
Engine 29 400-08 W. Girard Avenue
Foam 33 4750 Richmond Street
Engine 34 1301-07 N. 28th Street
Engine 35 Ladder 25 4208-52 Ridge Avenue
Engine 36 Ladder 20 7818 Frankford Avenue
Engine 37 101 W. Highland Avenue
Squirt 38 4960 Longshore Avenue
Engine 39 Ladder 30 6630 Ridge Avenue
Engine 40 Ladder 4 6438 Woodland Avenue
Engine 41 Ladder 24 1201 N. 61st Street
Squirt 43 Ladder 9 2108-14 Market Street
Engine 44 3420 Haverford Avenue
Engine 45 Ladder 14 2401 N. 26th Street
Engine 46 9197 Frankford Avenue
Squad 47 3023-45 Grays Ferry Avenue
Engine 49 2600 S. 13th Street
Engine 50 Ladder 12 1325 W. Cambria Street
Engine 51 Ladder 29 5931 Old York Road
Engine 52 4501 Van Kirk Street
Engine 53 Ladder 27 414-16 Snyder Avenue
Engine 54 1913 N. 63rd Street
Squirt 55 Ladder 22 4000 N. Front Street
Engine 56 832 Rhawn Street
Squirt 57 5559 Chestnut Street
Engine 58 812 Hendrix Street
Engine 59 Ladder 18 2207 W. Hunting Park Avenue
Foam 60 Ladder 19 2301 S. 24th Street
Engine 61 5334 Rising Sun Avenue
Engine 62 Ladder 34 9845 Bustleton Avenue
Engine 63 1210 Oak Lane Avenue
Engine 64 6000 Rising Sun Avenue
Engine 66 7720 Ridge Avenue
Engine 68 Ladder 13 801 S. 52nd Street
Quint 69 8201 Tinicum Avenue
Engine 70 4800 Langdon Street
Engine 71 Snorkel 28 1900 Cottman Avenue
Squad 72 1127-29 W. Louden Street
Engine 73 7515 Ogontz Avenue

Now, do you see how easy it was to get those addresses? To the best of my knowledge, there is no federal or state law banning the release of the address of a fire department. I found FDNY, Chicago, LAFD, and other major cities firehouse addresses on several different websites.

There are hundreds, if not thousands of books in libraries which describe the histories and growth of many fire departments, and include the addresses of all firehouses. Do you mean to tell me the librarian has a listing of each of these books, and is presently going through each of them whiting out the addresses?

As for Code 3, why publish half of an address? That makes no sense. Either publish the whole address, or none of it. If they think there are Al-Queda and Taliban members buying up all the stock of Code 3 or constantly reviewing their websites to see what kind of information is posted, you are out of your mind.

Firehouses, for the most part, are in the public domain. Isn't that one of things little kids are taught? If you are in danger, run to a firehouse, and you will be safe. How are you supposed to find the nearest one, if you don't know where they are located? Same applies for medical emergencies, where it would be quicker for you to drive/walk to the firehouse than calling 911.

I'm all for securing and protecting vital assets, but if someone wants to find something hard enough, they will find it, and not by looking at a Code 3 insert in a diecast piece.

Location: The twilight zone

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

My post about security was a joke you idiot.

Location: London UK

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Yes I bought (for a friend) one of the unfortunate piles of crap only to have the replacement sent to my address rather than his and still faulty. Thank goodness I bought the models using AMEX and the buyer protection has a chance to cut in......

Location: Sydney Australia

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Well maybe if a certain Code 3 executive were paying attention to his customers and the business that is going down the tubes, we could have some answers. But no - he is probably playing nurse again. As a rule, he should be monitoring this board, and that of fireengine.net because he knows the vast majority of diecast collectors for emergency vehicles and of Code 3 post here (especially because they get no answers from code 3 directly). He should PERSONALLY be responding to these posts on these boards, and not wait till weeks or so later when it finally may make it into a what's not new update. One of the best things about Code 3 in its heyday was the fact that Scott Schellcase would personally respond quickly to matters of concern on this board. But again, why do anything that the customer expects you to do, continue to "have it your way or the highway" approach. That's an excellent business model.

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Ya know what? Even if he is playing "nurse" what's it to us. Real life sucks, doesn't it? If he has family business to attend to that should always take first priority.

And what's with this "executive" crap? He's looking after R&D.

For the record this recent release of the Squrt should be embarrassing for C3 and the customer service that has followed is horrible, but the personal attacks are uncalled for.

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Brian Mott



IP: 72.78.123.184

Feb 18th, 2008 - 7:05 AM Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

On the C3 web site, they state that the SQURT is housed with Engine 43, Ladder 9 and Medic 7. SQURT 43 is Engine 43. There is no seperate Engine 43.


Brian




HH



IP: 68.116.221.140

Feb 18th, 2008 - 10:06 AM Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

So the question still remains.....
Is it Engine 43 OR Squrt 43?????????

------------------------------------------------------------------


There is NO Engine 43. It is just SQURT 43.

And Code 3 still has yet to answer my emails from last week.

Brian

Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Ya know what? Even if he is playing "nurse" what's it to us. Real life sucks, doesn't it? If he has family business to attend to that should always take first priority.

BOTTOM LINE IS, HE IS BEING PAID TO DO A JOB (WHICH FROM PRIOR POSTS WAS CUSTOMER SERVICE, R&D, AND REVAMPING THE MEMBERS BENEFITS/SITE). AND DO A JOB WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE ELSE IN HIS FAMILY IS SICK OR INJURED. IF HE CAN'T STAND THE HEAT, GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN. IF HE CANNOT ATTEND WORK FOR FAMILY REASONS, SOMEONE ELSE FROM CODE 3 - SHOULD BE TAKING HIS PLACE - NOT LETTING HIS WORK SLACK. I'VE HAD 7 MRIS FOR SERIOUS HEALTH PROBLEMS IN THE LAST MONTH AND AM HOPPED UP ON PAINKILLERS THAT ARE NO LONGER DOING THE JOB, AND I STILL MANAGE TO GO TO WORK EACH DAY, BECAUSE THATS WHAT IM PAID TO DO. SO MUCH AS I DON'T WISH ANY HARM TO HIS WIFE, HIS CAVALIER ATTITUDE ABOUT NEGLECTING HIS DUTIES AND PLAYING NURSEMAID ARE NOT APPROPRIATE. IF ITS OK FOR HIM TO RAISE THE ISSUE, ITS FAIR GAME.

And what's with this "executive" crap? He's looking after R&D.

DON'T KID YOURSELF. HE IS MAKING **** GOOD MONEY FOR THIS JOB. IF HIS NAME IS GOING ON THE WHATS NOT NEW PAGE EVERY WEEK, HE'S RUNNING MANY PARTS OF THE SHOW - AS EVIDENCED BY ALL THE CHANGES HE WANTS TO MAKE (BUT HAS FAILED TO COME ANYWHERE CLOSE TO DOING).

For the record this recent release of the Squrt should be embarrassing for C3 and the customer service that has followed is horrible, but the personal attacks are uncalled for.

WE ARE TIRED OF BEING NICE ABOUT IT..SENDING EMAIL AFTER EMAIL OF NO RESPONSE. POSTING OUR PROBLEMS ON BULLETIN BOARDS, NO RESPONSE. HE KNOWS OF THESE BOARDS DUE TO HIS OFF THE CUFF COMMENTS, SO HE CAN'T PLEAD IGNORANCE. YOU THINK THESE PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE BAD?? GO TO WWW.ELLIOTT.ORG, WHERE THE WEBMASTER PUBLISHES THE FULL NAMES, BUSINESS ADDRESSES, EMAIL ADDRESSES, BUSINESS, CELL, AND HOME PHONE #S, AND EVEN THE PERSONAL HOME ADDRESS OF CEOS AND EXECUTIVES IN THE AIRLINE AND TRAVEL INDUSTRY. THERE IS NO MORE MR NICE GUY ANY MORE. THAT'S HOW YOU GET THINGS DONE. DON'T TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS LIKE CRAP AND YOU WON'T HAVE THESE PROBLEMS.

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Location: On the opposite side of reality to this idiot

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Thank You Brian!!

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

You guys sure you aren't trying to resurrect the Code 3 Board before Code 3 does......aaahh for the good ole days..

BLAME IT ON THE CHARMED ONES. LOL

My little neice says that all the trouble with Code 3 Collectibles lately is due to interference by the "Charmed Ones". I would guess that in their quest to fight EVIL, they must have taken a road trip from SF down to LA to do intense battle with the Denizens of Woodland Hills. I wouldn't be surprised if Buffy was also in on this gig. Leave it to a wonan to screw up our diecast.

PS: Did any of you ever realize that "Code 3 Collectibles in Suburban Metropolitan Woodland Hills" spelled sideways is "Customers Shall Die Wednesday".

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Today's what's new, Once again no apologies over the Philly debacle. I'm going back to a real hobby model trains because if there is something wrong they will fix it at no cost to the consumer.

Location: CA

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Dunkle will never apologize. He's too busy telling us where he's been and how great Code 3 is...NOT!

Location: Smyrna,GA

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Just a thought. With Dunkel's wife sick, it is possible these "What's New" pages were prepared beforehand so he could take some time off.

Face it, it doesn't matter what he says. He's going to get bashed. On the other board, guys were already trashing him in advance based on their guesses of what he might say.

In spite of it, Code 3 posted someothing. It's more than other companies do.

Personaly, I think that based on what's been reported with the Philly DP, the quality issue needs to be addressed. I realize its taking a long time, but if you've ever had to deal with companies working in the far east, you might understand the issues. Nothing is quick. That being said, a public acknowledgement of the issue and the intent to fix it would have gone a long way.

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

TO go along with Tom's comments about working with the far east, there are many other items that go into the process. But also what do you want them to do? Make an appology? What does that prove? Acknowledge publically some (ALL?) models are defective? Why it has already been done. Say what will be done to correct the problem. It is possible even a few weeks since the board announcements, they don't know the entire scope or exactly how to fully correct the problem. Was it all 3000? or just the ones run through a single worker's station? If you truly believe that all pieces are fully inspected prior to shipment you are fooling yourself. Generally in a production run you might get a first article inspection and then perhaps a random sample during the run. But more times than not the latter won't occur. Even when built in America.

That being said I am appreciative to the posts bringing this to light. It has let me wait to order mine until I know it will be correct(ed).

Jeff

Location: PA

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

Re: THIS IS RIDICULOUS QUALITY CONTROL

TO go along with Tom's comments about working with the far east, there are many other items that go into the process. But also what do you want them to do? Make an appology? YES MAKE AN APOLOGY. What does that prove? IT PROVES THAT THE "BOYS" AT CODE 3 HAVE ENOUGH GUTS TO MAYBE DO THE RIGHT THING. Acknowledge publically some (ALL?) models are defective? YES. Why it has already been done.NOT BY CODE 3 IT HASN'T. Say what will be done to correct the problem. YEAH THAT WOULD BE A GOOD START, OR LET'S SEE, A $50 DOLLAR OFF COUPON FOR ANY MODEL FOR ANYONE PURCHASING A DEFECT. It is possible even a few weeks since the board announcements, they don't know the entire scope or exactly how to fully correct the problem. Was it all 3000? IT DOESN'T MATTER. or just the ones run through a single worker's station? AGAIN, DOESN'T MATTER. If you truly believe that all pieces are fully inspected prior to shipment you are fooling yourself. NO, WE ARE NOT FOOLING OURSELVES. NOBODY SAID SOMEONE AT CODE 3 (CA) HAD TO DO THE INSPECTION, BUT SOMEONE SHOULD. DON'T YOU REMEMBER ALL THOSE "CHECKED BY QC3" STICKERS? NOW IF YOU ARE SAYING THAT NOBODY EVER CHECKED THEM, THEN THE STICKERS ARE A FRAUD. Generally in a production run you might get a first article inspection and then perhaps a random sample during the run. But more times than not the latter won't occur. Even when built in America.

SO WHEN JETBLUE AND OTHER AIRLINES HAD PROBLEMS WITH AIRPLANES SITTING ON THE RUNWAYS FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME, OR FLIGHTS BEING CANCELLED BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE PEOPLE IN THE RIGHT PLACES, WHAT HAPPENED? FOR ONE, THERE WAS A PUBLIC - PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE COMPANY. IT WAS AN APOLOGY. AND THEN WHAT? THEN THERE WERE VOUCHERS GIVEN TO PASSENGERS, IN ADDITION TO REFUNDS. THESE VOUCHERS WERE ABOVE AND BEYOND ANYTHING REQUIRED BY LAW OR BY THEIR CONTRACT OF CARRIAGE. IN FACT, WHEN THE JET BLUE INCIDENT HAPPENED, THERE WAS NOTHING REQUIRING JET BLUE DO ANYTHING MORE THAN GIVE A REFUND. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, CODE 3 SHOULD MAKE A PUBLIC APOLOGY AND OFFER VOUCHERS TO THOSE WHO HAD DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO GOT 2 OR 3 DEFECTIVE PRODUCTS FOR THEIR INCONVENIENCE. IN MOST CASES OF POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE OR DEFECTS IN WORKMANSHIP, A CUSTOMER WILL BE BROUGHT BACK BY SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGING THE PROBLEM, SAYING THE COMPANY IS SORRY ABOUT IT, AND OFFERING THEM TOKEN COMPENSATION. QUIT MAKING EXCUSES THAT BECAUSE THIS IS "JUST A HOBBY, OR JUST DIECAST" THAT THE COMMON COURTESIES AND BUSINESS PRACTICES OF THE REAL WORLD DO NOT APPLY. AT $200 EACH, ITS AN EXPENSIVE HOBBY FOR CUSTOMERS TO BE TREATED THIS WAY.

That being said I am appreciative to the posts bringing this to light. It has let me wait to order mine until I know it will be correct(ed).

Jeff

NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK ON JEFF BTW, JUST RESPONDING TO HIS INFERENCES.

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